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Updated on July 17, 2020, 7:10 am

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17 Jul: @ 07:08:22  Louisiana vs Northern Waterthrus? [Ross Silcock]
15 Jul: @ 21:30:08 Re: Opinions? - Thanks! [Michael Park]
15 Jul: @ 17:45:20  Opinions? - Thanks! [Bates Estabrooks]
15 Jul: @ 16:16:41  Fwd: Thanks for the subscribe/unsubscribe help [Nick Lethaby]
15 Jul: @ 15:27:14 Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions? [Peter Pyle]
15 Jul: @ 14:38:12 Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions? [Adam Roberts]
15 Jul: @ 13:51:11 Re: Opinions? [Peter Pyle]
15 Jul: @ 13:51:08 Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions? [Peter Pyle]
15 Jul: @ 13:16:48 Re: Opinions? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
15 Jul: @ 13:08:59 Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions? [Lethaby, Nick]
15 Jul: @ 13:00:21 Re: Opinions? [Peter Pyle]
15 Jul: @ 12:11:04  subscribing to ID-Frontiers [Lethaby, Nick]
15 Jul: @ 11:40:00 Re: Opinions? [Lethaby, Nick]
15 Jul: @ 10:55:13 Re: Opinions? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
15 Jul: @ 10:28:51  Opinions? [Bates Estabrooks]





Subject: Louisiana vs Northern Waterthrus?
Date: Fri Jul 17 2020 7:08 am
From: silcock AT rosssilcock.com
 
Hi all,

Two videos of same waterthrush in northeastern Nebraska 21 May 2020, at Ponca State Park. Both waterthrushes occur here at this date (northernmost known summering location in the state for Louisiana).

Would appreciate comments on identification.

Thank you,
Ross


Ross Silcock
Seasonal Reports Compiler
Nebraska Bird Review
Co-Author Birds of Nebraska- Online
https://birds.outdoornebraska....

[https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/d...
Louisiana or Northern Waterthrush.MP4
[https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/d...
Louisiana or Northern Waterthrush 2.MP4

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions? - Thanks!
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 21:30 pm
From: dpbot AT earthlink.net
 
A Field Guide to /Warblers/ of North America (Peterson Field Guides)
Paperback “ September 24, 1997. by Jon L Dunn (Author), Kimball L
Garrett (Author)

There are comments regarding subspecies of Orange-crowned Warbler in the
field guide.

I hope the field guide is helpful. My copy is boxed after moving, so I
couldn't fetch it. And I don't feel that my memory is sufficient to
comment on the identification of the OCWA in your checklist.

-------------------

I find that bird unusual as well. I noticed that the eye arcs are
yellow, and not white -- that the vent seems to be more boldly yellow
that the throat. I recall that Dunn and Garrett point to these
characteristics. I don't recall anything about streaking on the breast.

Maybe it's my display, but I am not seeing much gray on the nape, nor
does the individual appear to be gray-headed. To me, the photo appears
to be a bit overexposed.


Michael Park


On 7/15/20 3:42 PM, Bates Estabrooks wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that responded. This has been very helpful and instructive.
>
> Can anyone suggest a good source (book or paper) that would help with distinguishing these OCWA subspecies?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bates Estabrooks
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android
> ________________________________
> From: Bates Estabrooks
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 11:24:44 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Opinions?
>
> I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
> https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
>
> While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not unprecedented:
> https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?... 20
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bates Estabrooks
> Tennessee
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions? - Thanks!
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 17:45 pm
From: wgpu AT hotmail.com
 
Thanks to everyone that responded.  This has been very helpful and instructive.

Can anyone suggest a good source (book or paper) that would help with distinguishing these OCWA subspecies?

Thanks.

Bates Estabrooks



Get Outlook for Android
________________________________
From: Bates Estabrooks
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 11:24:44 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Opinions?

I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...

While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not unprecedented:
https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...


Thanks.

Bates Estabrooks
Tennessee


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Fwd: Thanks for the subscribe/unsubscribe help
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 16:16 pm
From: nlethaby AT gmail.com
 
All,

Thanks to all of you who sent information on how to resubscribe.

--
Nick Lethaby
Goleta, CA

nlethaby@gmail.com
Mobile: 805 284 6200
Work: 805 562 5106

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 15:27 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
Hi Adam -

We don't see a lot of adults on the coast in fall but I think this is
one. As such, I think it is pretty typical of an adult orestera, with
feather veiling (typical of fresh basic feathers this early)
obscuring the grayer head and dulling the underparts. Adult lutescens
tend to be more olive (less dusky) than this and do not show so much
contrast between grayish head and greenish breast. Also the underpart
streaking appears more distinct than usual for lutescens of any age
(whether real or not!). Of course it could still be an intergrade but
I don't see it being a pure lutescens and believe it OK for orestera.
I don't know this plumage well enough to suggest sex without seeing
how much orange there is in the crown.

Hope this helps, Peter


At 12:29 PM 7/15/2020, Adam Roberts wrote:
>Bates, I agree if I saw your bird out west I'd think it might be something
>other than a typical lutescens on the coast. That said, I see lots of
>variation in birds migrating through the mountains. I've assumed that many
>of those were celata or orestera, but maybe that's incorrect.
>
>After photo'ing a bird during Fall that I thought looked like an orestera (
>https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... I received an opinion that a
>dull lutescens couldn't be ruled out since orestera were said to usually
>show gray heads or napes that contrast with a yellow or green back (more
>like your bird perhaps). Maybe someone else has thoughts on whether that
>usually holds true or not. Not sure if this helps or confuses matters
>(probably the latter!)
>
>-- Adam
>
>On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:49 AM Peter Pyle wrote:
>
> > Hi Nick - I still think them too distinct for the lutescens I see,
> > around central coastal California, at least. P
> >
> > At 11:01 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> > >I noticed the rather distinct streaking too but concluded it might
> > >be a photographic artifact.
> > >
> > >On Jul 15, 2020 10:57 AM, Peter Pyle wrote:
> > >It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
> > >comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos
> > >show conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for
> > >a worn adult lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a
> > >bit more gray on the nape than expected and the streaks on the
> > >underparts are too distinct. Perhaps an orestera or orestera x
> > >lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest celata. Western adult
> > >OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now which could explain
> > >its vagrancy to the east.
> > >
> > >Peter
> > >
> > >At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> > > >Bates,
> > > >
> > > >I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
> > > >although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
> > > >hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this
> > > >bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have
> > > >certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint
> > > >of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't
> > > >found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split
> > > >into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows
> > > >grayish tones in the upperparts.
> > > >
> > > >When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at
> > > >how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow
> > > >below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of
> > > >gray in the upperparts.
> > > >
> > > >Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
> > > >discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
> > > >migrant in May in small numbers.
> > > >
> > > >Nick Lethaby
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> > > >[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > > ] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
> > > >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > > >Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
> > > >
> > > >I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID
> > > >of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
> > > >
> > https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
> > > >
> > > >While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is
> > > >not unprecedented:
> > > > >
> >
> X=&env.maxY=&zhse&gpse&ev=Z&mr=112&bmo=1emo&yr=al&byr00&eyr 20>
> >
> https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?... 20
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >Bates Estabrooks
> > > >Tennessee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Archives:
> > >
> > https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > > >
> > > >Archives:
> > >
> > https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 14:38 pm
From: dukeweezo AT gmail.com
 
Bates, I agree if I saw your bird out west I™d think it might be something
other than a typical lutescens on the coast. That said, I see lots of
variation in birds migrating through the mountains. I've assumed that many
of those were celata or orestera, but maybe that's incorrect.

After photo'ing a bird during Fall that I thought looked like an orestera (
https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... I received an opinion that a
dull lutescens couldn™t be ruled out since orestera were said to usually
show gray heads or napes that contrast with a yellow or green back (more
like your bird perhaps). Maybe someone else has thoughts on whether that
usually holds true or not. Not sure if this helps or confuses matters
(probably the latter!)

-- Adam

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:49 AM Peter Pyle wrote:

> Hi Nick - I still think them too distinct for the lutescens I see,
> around central coastal California, at least. P
>
> At 11:01 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> >I noticed the rather distinct streaking too but concluded it might
> >be a photographic artifact.
> >
> >On Jul 15, 2020 10:57 AM, Peter Pyle wrote:
> >It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
> >comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos
> >show conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for
> >a worn adult lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a
> >bit more gray on the nape than expected and the streaks on the
> >underparts are too distinct. Perhaps an orestera or orestera x
> >lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest celata. Western adult
> >OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now which could explain
> >its vagrancy to the east.
> >
> >Peter
> >
> >At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> > >Bates,
> > >
> > >I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
> > >although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
> > >hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this
> > >bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have
> > >certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint
> > >of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't
> > >found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split
> > >into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows
> > >grayish tones in the upperparts.
> > >
> > >When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at
> > >how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow
> > >below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of
> > >gray in the upperparts.
> > >
> > >Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
> > >discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
> > >migrant in May in small numbers.
> > >
> > >Nick Lethaby
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> > >[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > ] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
> > >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > >Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
> > >
> > >I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID
> > >of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
> > >
> https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
> > >
> > >While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is
> > >not unprecedented:
> > > >
> X=&env.maxY=&zh=false&gp=false&ev=Z&mr=1-12&bmo=1&emo=12&yr=all&byr=1900&eyr=2020>
> https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > >Bates Estabrooks
> > >Tennessee
> > >
> > >
> > >Archives:
> >
> https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > >
> > >Archives:
> >
> https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 13:51 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
OK, thanks Al. leaning a bit more toward SY male, then, but my
comments on subspecies remain the same.

A general comment that it would be nice to put date into the message
(I usually assume photos I'm sent are recent). I also get a
surprising number of photos to review in which the sender does not
supply date at all, and the stamps have been stripped from the jpg files.

Cheers, P

At 11:13 AM 7/15/2020, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
>Peter
> See the date, this is April 20.
>Alvaro
>
>Alvaro Jaramillo
>alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
>www.alvarosadventures.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> On Behalf Of Peter Pyle
>Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:57 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
>
>It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
>comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos show
>conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for a worn adult
>lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a bit more gray on the
>nape than expected and the streaks on the underparts are too distinct.
>Perhaps an orestera or orestera x lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest
>celata. Western adult OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now
>which could explain its vagrancy to the east.
>
>Peter
>
>At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> >Bates,
> >
> >I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
> >although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
> >hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this bird
> >in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have certainly
> >seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint of gray on
> >the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't found any
> >evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split into two races
> >- coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows grayish tones in the
> >upperparts.
> >
> >When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at how
> >birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow below.
> >However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of gray in
> >the upperparts.
> >
> >Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
> >discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
> >migrant in May in small numbers.
> >
> >Nick Lethaby
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> >[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
> >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
> >
> >I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of
> >the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
> >https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
> >
> >While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not
> >unprecedented:
> >https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...
> >v.maxY=&zhse&gpse&ev=Z&mr=112&bmo=1emo&yr=al&byr00&eyr
> > 20
> >
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bates Estabrooks
> >Tennessee
> >
> >
> >Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> >Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 13:51 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
Hi Nick - I still think them too distinct for the lutescens I see,
around central coastal California, at least. P

At 11:01 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>I noticed the rather distinct streaking too but concluded it might
>be a photographic artifact.
>
>On Jul 15, 2020 10:57 AM, Peter Pyle wrote:
>It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
>comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos
>show conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for
>a worn adult lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a
>bit more gray on the nape than expected and the streaks on the
>underparts are too distinct. Perhaps an orestera or orestera x
>lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest celata. Western adult
>OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now which could explain
>its vagrancy to the east.
>
>Peter
>
>At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> >Bates,
> >
> >I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
> >although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
> >hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this
> >bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have
> >certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint
> >of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't
> >found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split
> >into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows
> >grayish tones in the upperparts.
> >
> >When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at
> >how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow
> >below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of
> >gray in the upperparts.
> >
> >Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
> >discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
> >migrant in May in small numbers.
> >
> >Nick Lethaby
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> >[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> ] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
> >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
> >
> >I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID
> >of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
> >https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
> >
> >While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is
> >not unprecedented:
> > X=&env.maxY=&zhse&gpse&ev=Z&mr=112&bmo=1emo&yr=al&byr00&eyr 20>https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?... 20
> >
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bates Estabrooks
> >Tennessee
> >
> >
> >Archives:
> https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> >Archives:
> https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 13:16 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Peter
See the date, this is April 20.
Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
On Behalf Of Peter Pyle
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:57 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Opinions?

It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos show
conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for a worn adult
lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a bit more gray on the
nape than expected and the streaks on the underparts are too distinct.
Perhaps an orestera or orestera x lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest
celata. Western adult OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now
which could explain its vagrancy to the east.

Peter

At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>Bates,
>
>I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
>although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
>hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this bird
>in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have certainly
>seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint of gray on
>the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't found any
>evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split into two races
>- coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows grayish tones in the
>upperparts.
>
>When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at how
>birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow below.
>However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of gray in
>the upperparts.
>
>Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
>discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
>migrant in May in small numbers.
>
>Nick Lethaby
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
>Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
>
>I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of
>the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
>https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
>
>While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not
>unprecedented:
>https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...
>v.maxY=&zhse&gpse&ev=Z&mr=112&bmo=1emo&yr=al&byr00&eyr
> 20
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bates Estabrooks
>Tennessee
>
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 13:08 pm
From: 000002b6f45ea5bc-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
I noticed the rather distinct streaking too but concluded it might be a photographic artifact.

On Jul 15, 2020 10:57 AM, Peter Pyle wrote:
It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos
show conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for
a worn adult lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a
bit more gray on the nape than expected and the streaks on the
underparts are too distinct. Perhaps an orestera or orestera x
lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest celata. Western adult
OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now which could explain
its vagrancy to the east.

Peter

At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>Bates,
>
>I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
>although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
>hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this
>bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have
>certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint
>of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't
>found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split
>into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows
>grayish tones in the upperparts.
>
>When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at
>how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow
>below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of
>gray in the upperparts.
>
>Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
>discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
>migrant in May in small numbers.
>
>Nick Lethaby
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
>Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
>
>I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID
>of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
>https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
>
>While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is
>not unprecedented:
>https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bates Estabrooks
>Tennessee
>
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 13:00 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
It's an interesting bird. It looks like an adult though I'm not quite
comfortable going to 1-yr-old (SY) or older (ASY) as these photos
show conflicting characters. For me it does not look too far off for
a worn adult lutescens (SY male or ASY female) except it does show a
bit more gray on the nape than expected and the streaks on the
underparts are too distinct. Perhaps an orestera or orestera x
lutescens but I don't see a lot to suggest celata. Western adult
OCWAs are undergoing extensive molt migration now which could explain
its vagrancy to the east.

Peter

At 09:36 AM 7/15/2020, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>Bates,
>
>I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies,
>although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's
>hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this
>bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have
>certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint
>of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't
>found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split
>into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows
>grayish tones in the upperparts.
>
>When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at
>how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow
>below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of
>gray in the upperparts.
>
>Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we
>discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular
>migrant in May in small numbers.
>
>Nick Lethaby
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
>Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?
>
>I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID
>of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
>https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...
>
>While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is
>not unprecedented:
>https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?... 20
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bates Estabrooks
>Tennessee
>
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: subscribing to ID-Frontiers
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 12:11 pm
From: 000002b6f45ea5bc-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
All,

I need to resubscribe to ID-Frontiers using a new email address. Could someone send the details on how to do this (preferably along with how to search the archives) as I have lost them?

Thanks,

Nick Lethaby
nlethaby@gmail.com

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 11:40 am
From: 000002b6f45ea5bc-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Bates,

I have spent a bit of time looking at the various OCWA subspecies, although with much more of an emphasis on west coast birds. So it's hard for me to comment on the variation in celata. If I saw this bird in S Cal, I would put it down as lutescens x celeta. I have certainly seen a few birds that look like lutescens but have a hint of gray on the hindneck. I assume these are hybrids as I haven't found any evidence that pure lutescens (which IMO should be split into two races - coastal California and Sierras/Pac NW) shows grayish tones in the upperparts.

When I looked at celata and orestera specimens, I was surprised at how birds from within the range of celata could be quite yellow below. However I don't look critically at variation in the extent of gray in the upperparts.

Out in S. Cal, celata appears to be very rare in fall, but we discovered several this spring, suggesting that it may be a regular migrant in May in small numbers.

Nick Lethaby

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDWG01] Opinions?

I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...

While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not unprecedented:
https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...


Thanks.

Bates Estabrooks
Tennessee


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 10:55 am
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Bates
Is there really any way to know if you are seeing lutescens vs an extra
bright eastern bird? Perhaps all of those spots on the eBird map in the East
are just bright Eastern birds? In any case, for a spring bird, yours would
look unusual to me here in California. It is not even in its color, gray on
the neck, dull on the back. It does not look like what we see here in
California is the bottom line.
Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
On Behalf Of Bates Estabrooks
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:25 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Opinions?

I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of the
Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...

While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not
unprecedented:
https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...
Y=&zhse&gpse&ev=Z&mr=112&bmo=1emo&yr=al&byr00&eyr 20


Thanks.

Bates Estabrooks
Tennessee


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Opinions?
Date: Wed Jul 15 2020 10:28 am
From: wgpu AT hotmail.com
 
I'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions about the subspecies ID of the Orange-crowned Warbler in my checklist here:
https://ebird.org/checklist/S6...

While lutescens would be out of expected range in the east, it is not unprecedented:
https://ebird.org/map/orcwar3?...


Thanks.

Bates Estabrooks
Tennessee


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


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