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Updated on September 25, 2016, 11:00 am

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25 Sep: @ 10:49:49  Siberian Sparrowhawk in Alaska - first US record? [0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request]
24 Sep: @ 17:40:42 Re: Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details [Tony Leukering]
24 Sep: @ 17:22:44  Iris Colour of Goshawks [0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request]
24 Sep: @ 16:24:38 Re: Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details [0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request]
24 Sep: @ 08:44:35  Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details [Franklin Haas]
23 Sep: @ 13:40:52 Re: Empidonax no2 [Jason Rogers]
23 Sep: @ 13:33:15 Re: Eastern Phoebe vs. Western Wood-Pewee [Tony Leukering]
23 Sep: @ 13:01:35  Eastern Phoebe vs. Western Wood-Pewee [Douglas Faulder]
23 Sep: @ 10:51:21 Re: Adak Goahawk - correction! [Killian Mullarney]
22 Sep: @ 21:06:49 Re: Adak Goahawk - correction! [Glenn d'Entremont]
22 Sep: @ 13:13:27 Re: Adak Goahawk - correction! [Phil Davis]
22 Sep: @ 12:49:26 Re: Adak Goahawk - correction! [Peter Pyle]
22 Sep: @ 12:00:11 Re: Adak Goahawk - correction! [Franklin Haas]
22 Sep: @ 11:19:49 Re: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies) [Peter Pyle]
22 Sep: @ 02:10:55  Fwd: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies) [The HH75]
22 Sep: @ 01:05:38 Re: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies) [The HH75]
21 Sep: @ 23:29:22  Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies) [Franklin Haas]
21 Sep: @ 19:10:43 Re: Dowitcher ID [Brendan Fogarty]
21 Sep: @ 16:00:08 Re: Dowitcher ID [karlson3]
21 Sep: @ 10:09:24  Dowitcher ID [Brendan Fogarty]
18 Sep: @ 07:58:48 Re: Cory's/Scopoli's Shearwater, Georgia, USA 26 August 2007 [The HH75]
18 Sep: @ 01:18:56 Re: Fall warbler in California [David Irons]
18 Sep: @ 00:23:06 Re: Fall warbler in California [Jeff Gilligan]
18 Sep: @ 00:18:06  Fall warbler in California [Noah Arthur]
15 Sep: @ 18:41:11 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [michael]
15 Sep: @ 17:59:58 Re: Mystery Empidonax [justin.bosler]
15 Sep: @ 15:27:59  Cory's/Scopoli's Shearwater, Georgia, USA 26 August 2007 [Ken Blankenship]
15 Sep: @ 13:30:17 Re: Empidonax no2 [Lethaby, Nick]
15 Sep: @ 11:25:11  Empidonax no2 [Michael Park]
15 Sep: @ 09:16:37 Re: Mystery Empidonax [Ian McLaren]
15 Sep: @ 03:41:12 Re: Mystery Empidonax [Jason Rogers]
15 Sep: @ 00:59:47  Mystery Empidonax again [Michael Park]
15 Sep: @ 00:55:01  Mystery Empidonax [Michael Park]
14 Sep: @ 16:52:26  Archilochus sp central Kansas [Joseph Miller]
14 Sep: @ 13:25:35 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [David Irons]
14 Sep: @ 13:10:26 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Peter Pyle]
14 Sep: @ 12:25:41 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Joseph Morlan]
14 Sep: @ 11:50:21 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Lethaby, Nick]
14 Sep: @ 11:45:18 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Steve Hampton]
14 Sep: @ 11:32:31 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Lethaby, Nick]
14 Sep: @ 08:40:47 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Steve Hampton]
13 Sep: @ 17:49:59 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Michael L. P. Retter]
13 Sep: @ 16:06:12 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Steve Huggins]
13 Sep: @ 15:55:43 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [John Sterling]
13 Sep: @ 15:53:15 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Lethaby, Nick]
13 Sep: @ 15:51:59 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Noah Arthur]
13 Sep: @ 15:32:32 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [David Irons]
13 Sep: @ 14:28:04 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Giff Beaton]
13 Sep: @ 14:14:45 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Lethaby, Nick]
13 Sep: @ 14:02:35 Re: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif [Andrew Haffenden]





Subject: Siberian Sparrowhawk in Alaska - first US record?
Date: Sun Sep 25 2016 10:49 am
From: 0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi Frank

I hadn't realised that your Accipiter sighting had been widely discussed
here on Frontiers already. World raptor expert Dick Forsman had already been
sent your images and had concluded that the bird was indeed a SPARROWHAWK
but a SIBERIAN SPARROWHAWK (form nisosimilis), a bird that from images
seems to be halfway between Sparrowhawk and Northern Goshawk in appearance,
sharing many of the latter's key features! I was totally unaware that
nisosimilis can so closely resemble gentilis, a large proportion of birds to the
west seemingly intergrading and virtually inseparable from each other
(nisus/nisosimilis intergrades). You really do learn something every day in this
World of internet birding!!

Very best wishes

Lee Evans

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details
Date: Sat Sep 24 2016 17:40 pm
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi Lee:

I don't know how one explains the broadly white-tipped scapulars, if it's a Northern Goshawk.

Tony






Tony Leukering
currently Cut Bank, MT
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/





-----Original Message-----
From: 0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details

Frank,

Reference

http://franklinhaas.com/EUSP/E...

In my opinion, the bird in your Alaskan image is a NORTHERN GOSHAWK. Quite
clearly so! No Eurasian Sparrowhawk that I know of can show such
blue-washed upperparts as this in combination with such blackish ear-coverts, such a
broad and bulging white eye-stripe and such contrastingly dark crown. The
broad, hefty body and long tail is also suggestive of Goshawk


Very best wishes

Lee Evans

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Iris Colour of Goshawks
Date: Sat Sep 24 2016 17:22 pm
From: 0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Norman

Plenty of yellow irised sub/near adult NORTHERN GOSHAWKS photographed on
here....

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Goshawk&rlz1AOHY_esGB709GB709&espv=2bi
w79&bihu5&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&
ved
hUKEwiQmbPChKnPAhXGL8AKHQJaAokQ_AUIBigB

Very few blue-backed Eurasian Sparrowhawks with as striking head pattern as
Alaskan bird

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sparrowhawk&espv=2biw79&bihu5&site=w
ebhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2ved
hUKEwip-JyChanPAhWmCcAKHRCcDCAQ_A
UIBigB

Best wishes

Lee

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details
Date: Sat Sep 24 2016 16:24 pm
From: 0000012475b985cd-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Frank,

Reference

http://franklinhaas.com/EUSP/E...

In my opinion, the bird in your Alaskan image is a NORTHERN GOSHAWK. Quite
clearly so! No Eurasian Sparrowhawk that I know of can show such
blue-washed upperparts as this in combination with such blackish ear-coverts, such a
broad and bulging white eye-stripe and such contrastingly dark crown. The
broad, hefty body and long tail is also suggestive of Goshawk


Very best wishes

Lee Evans

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Eurasian Sparrowhawk - more details
Date: Sat Sep 24 2016 8:44 am
From: fhaasbirds AT gmail.com
 
The important details are at

http://franklinhaas.com/EUSP/E...

How we got to this identification (and how I screwed it up at first) is as
follows.

When we first encountered this bird, I got it in my scope and said to
myself “It is a small accipiter.”

I grabbed the camera and took 6 distant photos (the two best on the link
above). As soon as we inched the truck closer, the bird flew away, quickly
disappearing over the hilltop. I got no other photos.

We searched the rest of the day, and Thursday morning, to no avail.

As we were looking for the bird, I reviewed the photos in the camera and
saw what looked like a Goshawk. We grabbed the field guide we had on hand
(Birds of East Asia - Mark Brazil) and turned to the accipiter pages.
Nothing on the first page matched what we saw. The second page had Eurasian
Sparrowhawk and Northern Goshawk. Unfortunately, the illustration of the
female sparrowhawk does not do it justice and the head pattern is very
muted.

So I allowed one half of my brain (the plumage-driven Goshawk side) to
overrule the other side (the small accipiter side) and assumed my
size-perception was off and went with Goshawk. Even so, I was bothered by
the white markings on the back. I have seen thousands of Sharp-shinned and
Cooper’s hawks and hundreds of Northern Goshawks in my birding career (I
was a hawkwatcher and counter at Hawk Mountain in my early birding days),
and have see many Sharpies and Coops with those kinds of markings on the
back, but never a Goshawk. They may occur on Goshawks, but I just never ran
into them. That led to my IDFrontiers post asking which subspecies this was
and what the back-markings meant.

That was Wednesday night.

Thursday morning, I was greeted with several suggestions from IDFrontiers
contributors to reconsider Eurasian Sparrowhawk. I looked again at the
field guide and then went online to look for photos. The third image I
found matched our bird exactly! I now realized I should have stuck with my
initial size estimate! So I changed the ID to sparrowhawk.

Subsequent posts by IDFrontiers contributors have solidified that decision.

Responding to an excellent suggestion from John Puschock (who had a
Eurasian Sparrowhawk on Adak a few years ago – but didn’t get identifiable
photos), on Thursday morning, I climbed up the hill where we had seen the
bird and took photos of the branch it was sitting on with a 12-inch ruler
attached to provide scale (What the bird was doing with a 12-inch ruler, I
will never know...).

Those photos are on the link above and confirm the size of the bird.

We had been traveling home since Thursday afternoon, arriving last night,
so that is why we have been quiet on this post until now.

So there you have it. A first confirmed North American record.

Frank & Barb Haas

--
Frank Haas

Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Empidonax no2
Date: Fri Sep 23 2016 13:40 pm
From: hawkowl AT hotmail.com
 
Same bird as Empid no1, no?

Jason Rogers
Calgary, AB


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Michael Park
Sent: September 15, 2016 4:24 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Empidonax no2

Two images taken in the shade of an Empid. that I would like some comment on. Thanks in advance!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Eastern Phoebe vs. Western Wood-Pewee
Date: Fri Sep 23 2016 13:33 pm
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
All:

For those without eBird savvy, the checklists are at

http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/...

http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/...

http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/...

http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/...



Tony





Tony Leukering
currently Cut Bank, MT
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/





-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Faulder
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2016 12:01 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Eastern Phoebe vs. Western Wood-Pewee

This bird was seen in Edmonton Alberta on August 29 and 30th. The yellow mandible complicates the ID as Eastern Phoebe. Photos on eBird checklists S31323010, S31323042, S31329293 and S31337065.


or go to the eBird hotspot visit list http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/hotspot/L795636/activity?yr=al&m

All opinions appreciated.


Thank you, Doug Faulder


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Eastern Phoebe vs. Western Wood-Pewee
Date: Fri Sep 23 2016 13:01 pm
From: dfaulder AT msn.com
 
This bird was seen in Edmonton Alberta on August 29 and 30th.  The yellow mandible complicates the ID as Eastern Phoebe.  Photos on eBird checklists S31323010, S31323042, S31329293 and S31337065.


or go to the eBird hotspot visit list http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/hotspot/L795636/activity?yr=all&m=


All opinions appreciated.


Thank you, Doug Faulder


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Adak Goahawk - correction!
Date: Fri Sep 23 2016 10:51 am
From: ktmullarney AT gmail.com
 
Having proposed (in a brief message to my friend Harry Hussey) that the
'Adak Goshawk' was actually a Eurasian Sparrowhawk, I felt it would be
helpful to hear the view of Finnish raptor expert Dick Forsman on the bird
in question. Here it is:

"Hi Killian,

Proves to be a most interesting case!

It is clearly a Sparrowhawk, no doubt, but has a bit of an odd look at
first glance: rather pale, very strong and broad supercilium and foremost,
no barring to uppertail, latter being a good separating character between
our Spars (always barred) and ad Gos (many with plain central uppertail).
However, the migrant Siberian subspecies *nisosimilis*, which of course
would be the most likely in this case, fits the Alaskan bird perfectly! I
found several examples of this form in the Japanese handbook on raptors by
Morioka et al.: pale grey above, strong supercilium and more or less plain
folded uppertail, a perfect match to the bird in question!

Appears that the Americans have got their first real Eurasian Sparrowhawk!
Congrats to whoever made the photographs.

best,
Dick "

I don't have a copy of the Japanese handbook mentioned by Dick, but a
google search using the Japanese name for Eurasian Sparrowhawk ハイタカ
produces some interesting examples, a few of which can be seen at the
following links:

http://www.daidou.net/idobata/...

http://www.tajima.or.jp/modules/nature/details.php?bid=403

http://samaraw.com/fieldscope/...


Regards,

Killian


On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Glenn d'Entremont wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance. I can not locate online images which show the broad
> white eye line like goshawk on Eurasian Sparrowhawk; which has to be a
> female per the references. If someone would point me in another direction
> I would appreciate it. It does appear the bottom image has a reddish cast
> to the chin/throat. But the reddish underparts seem to be a feature of
> males.
>
> Many thanks and sorry for the intrusion.
>
> Glenn
>
> Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1@comcast.net Stoughton, MA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Franklin Haas"
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:57:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Adak Goahawk - correction!
>
> It looks like we blew this one.
>
> The bird is a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk (still a great bird on Adak).
>
> Unfortunately, the field guide we have out here does not have a very good
> illustration of the female E. sparrowhawk (it doesn't show the bold facial
> pattern), so we jumped right to Goshawk.
>
> Thanks for pointing out the error of our ways...
>
> Frank & Barb
>
>
> --
> Frank Haas
>
> Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Adak Goahawk - correction!
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 21:06 pm
From: gdentremont1 AT comcast.net
 
Pardon my ignorance.  I can not locate online images which show the broad white eye line like goshawk on Eurasian Sparrowhawk; which has to be a female per the references.  If someone would point me in another direction I would appreciate it.  It does appear the bottom image has a reddish cast to the chin/throat.  But the reddish underparts seem to be a feature of males.

Many thanks and sorry for the intrusion.

Glenn

Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1@comcast.net Stoughton, MA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Franklin Haas"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:57:51 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Adak Goahawk - correction!

It looks like we blew this one.

The bird is a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk (still a great bird on Adak).

Unfortunately, the field guide we have out here does not have a very good
illustration of the female E. sparrowhawk (it doesn't show the bold facial
pattern), so we jumped right to Goshawk.

Thanks for pointing out the error of our ways...

Frank & Barb


--
Frank Haas

Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Adak Goahawk - correction!
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 13:13 pm
From: pdavis AT ix.netcom.com
 
Hi Frank and Barb:

Great bird, indeed!

I think this would be the first documented record for North America.
We had one at Attu in Fall 2000, but we failed to get a photo of it
(despite great views!) so no first accepted record for NA.

Excellent!

Phil


At 12:57 PM 09/22/2016, Franklin Haas wrote:

>The bird is a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk (still a great bird on Adak).

==================================
Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
mailto:PDavis@ix.netcom.com
==================================

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Adak Goahawk - correction!
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 12:49 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
I'm often more interested in age than species determination!  At
least my earlier comments on age can be applied to both Northern
Goshawk and Eurasian Sparrowhawk.

Best, Peter

At 09:57 AM 9/22/2016, Franklin Haas wrote:
>It looks like we blew this one.
>
>The bird is a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk (still a great bird on Adak).
>
>Unfortunately, the field guide we have out here does not have a very good
>illustration of the female E. sparrowhawk (it doesn't show the bold facial
>pattern), so we jumped right to Goshawk.
>
>Thanks for pointing out the error of our ways...
>
>Frank & Barb
>
>
>--
>Frank Haas
>
>Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Adak Goahawk - correction!
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 12:00 pm
From: fhaasbirds AT gmail.com
 
It looks like we blew this one.

The bird is a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk (still a great bird on Adak).

Unfortunately, the field guide we have out here does not have a very good
illustration of the female E. sparrowhawk (it doesn't show the bold facial
pattern), so we jumped right to Goshawk.

Thanks for pointing out the error of our ways...

Frank & Barb


--
Frank Haas

Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies)
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 11:19 am
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
Hi Frank -

This is an adult Northern Goshawk of at least 1+ years of age (AHY in
American banding terminology) due to body plumage, gray flight
feathers, rectrix shape and pattern, etc. You can also make out molt
clines in the secondaries, indicating that it has undergone a
complete molt of this tract. There is a possibility that this can be
confirmed as an older bird, at least 2+ years old (ASY) as I believe
most second-cycle birds (SYs) will still be in molt at this time of
year and/or will show one or more retained juvenile secondaries in
the visible panel on the wing (typically among s7-s9, which are all
visible). Perhaps someone working with goshawks can weigh in on this.

North American Northern Goshawks typically will show an orange cast
to the eyes by 1+ years (SY) and virtually all ASYs should show
yellow-orange to red eyes, so if ASY can be confirmed it could help
the case for a Eurasian subspecies.

Peter


At 09:28 PM 9/21/2016, Franklin Haas wrote:
>We found a Northern Goshawk on Adak, AK today. This is in the middle of the
>Aleutians.
>
>Photos can be seen here: http://www.franklinhaas.com/go...
>
>The wind has been blowing 20-30 mph from the west for the past three days,
>so we presume this is an Asian subspecies.
>
>We believe it is *schvedowi*, as it is too light to be *fujiyamae *and too
>dark to be *albidus*.
>
>However, to be conscientious, is there a way to tell *schvedowi *from
>
>*atricapillus (the NA race)?*
>I know adult *atricapillus *should have red eyes and *schvedowi* yellow,
>but is this a full adult?
>
>Do the white feather-edgings on the back give any indication of age or molt?
>
>Note: There are only two recognized records of Northern Goshawk in the
>Aleutians, both from Shemya. One was *albidus*, the other unknown.
>
>Frank Haas
>
>--
>Frank Haas
>
>Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies)
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 2:10 am
From: hhussey3 AT gmail.com
 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "The HH75"
Date: 22 Sep 2016 08:09
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies)
To: "KILLIAN MULLARNEY"
Cc:

Hi Killian,
I was torn on that matter, mainly due to the hint of colour on the
throat, but somehow assumed the original poster had excluded Eurasian
Sparrowhawk in the field. Given the scrambled nature of getting images,
however, as outlined by Frank, it's quite possible that he hadn't? It does
give the air of, perhaps, being a female Eurasian Sparrowhawk in these
images.
I ought not to post on here before my mind has caught up with my body
and fully woken!
Regards,
Harry
On 22 Sep 2016 07:44, "Killian Mullarney" wrote:

> Hi Harry,
>
> Before getting involved in discussion of Goshawk subspecies (which I know
> is a subject you have looked into), can we be sure this is not actually a
> Sparrowhawk? The proportions of the head and bill are more suggestive of
> Sparrowhawk to my eyes, I don't recall having ever seen an image of an
> adult Goshawk with those obvious light spots on the scapulars, and there
> appears to be a hint of colour on the throat...
>
> If it had been photographed in Ireland I'd have a hard job believing it
> was a Goshawk!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Killian
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:05 AM, The HH75 wrote:
>
>> Hi Frank,
>> Are there any shots showing the underparts? The scapulars seem paler
>> with less obvious shaft streaks than on many atricapillus, but the
>> underparts markings could tip the balance one way or another.
>> Regards,
>> Harry
>> On 22 Sep 2016 05:29, "Franklin Haas" wrote:
>>
>> > We found a Northern Goshawk on Adak, AK today. This is in the middle of
>> the
>> > Aleutians.
>> >
>> > Photos can be seen here: http://www.franklinhaas.com/go...
>> >
>> > The wind has been blowing 20-30 mph from the west for the past three
>> days,
>> > so we presume this is an Asian subspecies.
>> >
>> > We believe it is *schvedowi*, as it is too light to be *fujiyamae *and
>> too
>> > dark to be *albidus*.
>> >
>> > However, to be conscientious, is there a way to tell *schvedowi *from
>> >
>> > *atricapillus (the NA race)?*
>> > I know adult *atricapillus *should have red eyes and *schvedowi* yellow,
>> > but is this a full adult?
>> >
>> > Do the white feather-edgings on the back give any indication of age or
>> > molt?
>> >
>> > Note: There are only two recognized records of Northern Goshawk in the
>> > Aleutians, both from Shemya. One was *albidus*, the other unknown.
>> >
>> > Frank Haas
>> >
>> > --
>> > Frank Haas
>> >
>> > Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.
>> >
>> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>> >
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies)
Date: Thu Sep 22 2016 1:05 am
From: hhussey3 AT gmail.com
 
Hi Frank,
Are there any shots showing the underparts? The scapulars seem paler
with less obvious shaft streaks than on many atricapillus, but the
underparts markings could tip the balance one way or another.
Regards,
Harry
On 22 Sep 2016 05:29, "Franklin Haas" wrote:

> We found a Northern Goshawk on Adak, AK today. This is in the middle of the
> Aleutians.
>
> Photos can be seen here: http://www.franklinhaas.com/go...
>
> The wind has been blowing 20-30 mph from the west for the past three days,
> so we presume this is an Asian subspecies.
>
> We believe it is *schvedowi*, as it is too light to be *fujiyamae *and too
> dark to be *albidus*.
>
> However, to be conscientious, is there a way to tell *schvedowi *from
>
> *atricapillus (the NA race)?*
> I know adult *atricapillus *should have red eyes and *schvedowi* yellow,
> but is this a full adult?
>
> Do the white feather-edgings on the back give any indication of age or
> molt?
>
> Note: There are only two recognized records of Northern Goshawk in the
> Aleutians, both from Shemya. One was *albidus*, the other unknown.
>
> Frank Haas
>
> --
> Frank Haas
>
> Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Northern Goshawk ID (subspecies)
Date: Wed Sep 21 2016 23:29 pm
From: fhaasbirds AT gmail.com
 
We found a Northern Goshawk on Adak, AK today. This is in the middle of the
Aleutians.

Photos can be seen here: http://www.franklinhaas.com/go...

The wind has been blowing 20-30 mph from the west for the past three days,
so we presume this is an Asian subspecies.

We believe it is *schvedowi*, as it is too light to be *fujiyamae *and too
dark to be *albidus*.

However, to be conscientious, is there a way to tell *schvedowi *from

*atricapillus (the NA race)?*
I know adult *atricapillus *should have red eyes and *schvedowi* yellow,
but is this a full adult?

Do the white feather-edgings on the back give any indication of age or molt?

Note: There are only two recognized records of Northern Goshawk in the
Aleutians, both from Shemya. One was *albidus*, the other unknown.

Frank Haas

--
Frank Haas

Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing.

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Dowitcher ID
Date: Wed Sep 21 2016 19:10 pm
From: 000000dca2d16fd3-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi everyone,
Thank you for your responses! I was able to refind the bird this afternoon with a little more light. I added photos to the same album. The details of its juvenal pluamge can be better seen, and they are clearly only right for Short-billed. It is definitely trying its hardest to achieve a Long-billed look though.
https://goo.gl/photos/Q56SSMHA...

Brendan

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:00 PM, "karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET" wrote:


Brendan and all: interesting dowitcher for the points you mentioned. Physically it seems to have much of the structural features of a Long-billed (larger size, long bill with slight downward arch in outer 1/3rd of bill, and more rounded body shape), and the plumage also is close to LBDO with wing coverts appearing mostly unmarked and thinly pale edged and a orange-pink blush to the upper chest, but a few things are not consistent with LBDO at all. The most obvious are the very strongly marked tertials, which is fully inconsistent with LBDO, who can show a few weak internal markings to the tertials and wing coverts, but never this strongly marked. BTW, it is clearly a juvenile bird for many reasons that are not needed here. The other field marks that are not fully consistent with LBDO are the bold, wide colorful edges and markings on the upperparts, which should be thinly edged in juvenile LBDO and lacking in strong internal color markings. Another feature that is not expected in LBDO is the thin neck and fairly evenly balanced weight distribution on this bird, which should stand out in direct comparison with SBDO. An explanation for the larger size could be that it is a bird of the subspecies hendersoni, which average larger in size compared to the Atlantic subspecies griseus, which outnumbers hendersoni about 100-1 in NY and Long Island. These juvenile hendersoni also average brighter than griseus in all plumages, including juvenile, which could account for the bright upperparts on this bird. I also noted that the tail pattern shows about 75 percent wide white bands, with the dark bands being about 25 percent the width. This is not consistent with LBDO, whose tails bands are typically 60-75 percent dark bands with much narrower white ones. However, in our book The Shorebird Guide, a photo of two full breeding LBDOs show one bird with equal width bands, which some SBDOs can also have.
I must say, however, when I first opened the photos, I thought Long-billed, and I choose juvenile Short-billed without the usual confidence that I have with most dowitchers. In real life, I would have evaluated the body structure and bill shape carefully on a moving bird, which is so much more reliable than photos, which can be misleading rather than helpful in many cases. I would have noted the chest and shoulder heavy structure in a relaxed feeding posture, with a front-heavy bodied appearance more obvious during continuous observation of feeding behavior. The fairly straight undercarraige on this bird is more consistent with SBDO, with LBDO having a more distended, rounded, egg-shaped undercarraige, but young LBDOs in fall often don't show this physical feature due to a lack of nourishment, or for some other reason that I don't know about. I just know that some juvenile Long-bills in fall seem to have more slender bodies than adults, especially the distinctive rounded or egg-shaped undercarraige. I must go to the Short-billed Dowitcher camp based on the strongly marked tertials and upperpart fringes and internal markings, but I do so with a few reservations based on the structural views and bill shape in these photos. Thanks for sharing these photos, Brendan.

Kevin Karlson

----- Original Message -----

From: "Brendan Fogarty"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:09:10 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher ID

Hi everyone,
I'd appreciated any input on this funky dowitcher. It was seen yesterday just before sunset on Long Island NY, where Short-billeds predominate. It was in a small freshwater pond a few hundred yards from a saltmarsh. I thought I heard a Long-billed call as a group of dowitchers flew the length of the pond. At least one silent bird left the pond for the marsh, but I tracked down this odd individual which seem suggestive of both species.
What I want most is an opinion on the age. It looks to me to be a molting juvenile with heavily marked tertials (what other age could it be?), but structure and perhaps color are suggestive of Long-billed.
Warning, photos backlit or fuzzy at best. https://goo.gl/photos/Q56SSMHAMn5GedZt8

Best,
Brendan Fogarty

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Dowitcher ID
Date: Wed Sep 21 2016 16:00 pm
From: karlson3 AT comcast.net
 
Brendan and all: interesting dowitcher for the points you mentioned. Physically it seems to have much of the structural features of a Long-billed (larger size, long bill with slight downward arch in outer 1/3rd of bill, and more rounded body shape), and the plumage also is close to LBDO with wing coverts appearing mostly unmarked and thinly pale edged and a orange-pink blush to the upper chest, but a few things are not consistent with LBDO at all. The most obvious are the very strongly marked tertials, which is fully inconsistent with LBDO, who can show a few weak internal markings to the tertials and wing coverts, but never this strongly marked. BTW, it is clearly a juvenile bird for many reasons that are not needed here. The other field marks that are not fully consistent with LBDO are the bold, wide colorful edges and markings on the upperparts, which should be thinly edged in juvenile LBDO and lacking in strong internal color markings. Another feature that is not expected in LBDO is the thin neck and fairly evenly balanced weight distribution on this bird, which should stand out in direct comparison with SBDO. An explanation for the larger size could be that it is a bird of the subspecies hendersoni, which average larger in size compared to the Atlantic subspecies griseus, which outnumbers hendersoni about 100-1 in NY and Long Island. These juvenile hendersoni also average brighter than griseus in all plumages, including juvenile, which could account for the bright upperparts on this bird. I also noted that the tail pattern shows about 75 percent wide white bands, with the dark bands being about 25 percent the width. This is not consistent with LBDO, whose tails bands are typically 60-75 percent dark bands with much narrower white ones. However, in our book The Shorebird Guide, a photo of two full breeding LBDOs show one bird with equal width bands, which some SBDOs can also have. 
I must say, however, when I first opened the photos, I thought Long-billed, and I choose juvenile Short-billed without the usual confidence that I have with most dowitchers. In real life, I would have evaluated the body structure and bill shape carefully on a moving bird, which is so much more reliable than photos, which can be misleading rather than helpful in many cases. I would have noted the chest and shoulder heavy structure in a relaxed feeding posture, with a front-heavy bodied appearance more obvious during continuous observation of feeding behavior. The fairly straight undercarraige on this bird is more consistent with SBDO, with LBDO having a more distended, rounded, egg-shaped undercarraige, but young LBDOs in fall often don't show this physical feature due to a lack of nourishment, or for some other reason that I don't know about. I just know that some juvenile Long-bills in fall seem to have more slender bodies than adults, especially the distinctive rounded or egg-shaped undercarraige. I must go to the Short-billed Dowitcher camp based on the strongly marked tertials and upperpart fringes and internal markings, but I do so with a few reservations based on the structural views and bill shape in these photos. Thanks for sharing these photos, Brendan.

Kevin Karlson

----- Original Message -----

From: "Brendan Fogarty"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:09:10 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher ID

Hi everyone,
I'd appreciated any input on this funky dowitcher. It was seen yesterday just before sunset on Long Island NY, where Short-billeds predominate. It was in a small freshwater pond a few hundred yards from a saltmarsh. I thought I heard a Long-billed call as a group of dowitchers flew the length of the pond. At least one silent bird left the pond for the marsh, but I tracked down this odd individual which seem suggestive of both species.
What I want most is an opinion on the age. It looks to me to be a molting juvenile with heavily marked tertials (what other age could it be?), but structure and perhaps color are suggestive of Long-billed.
Warning, photos backlit or fuzzy at best. https://goo.gl/photos/Q56SSMHA...

Best,
Brendan Fogarty

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Dowitcher ID
Date: Wed Sep 21 2016 10:09 am
From: 000000dca2d16fd3-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi everyone,
I'd appreciated any input on this funky dowitcher. It was seen yesterday just before sunset on Long Island NY, where Short-billeds predominate. It was in a small freshwater pond a few hundred yards from a saltmarsh. I thought I heard a Long-billed call as a group of dowitchers flew the length of the pond. At least one silent bird left the pond for the marsh, but I tracked down this odd individual which seem suggestive of both species.
What I want most is an opinion on the age. It looks to me to be a molting juvenile with heavily marked tertials (what other age could it be?), but structure and perhaps color are suggestive of Long-billed.
Warning, photos backlit or fuzzy at best. https://goo.gl/photos/Q56SSMHA...

Best,
Brendan Fogarty

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Cory's/Scopoli's Shearwater, Georgia, USA 26 August 2007
Date: Sun Sep 18 2016 7:58 am
From: hhussey3 AT gmail.com
 
Hi Ken,
This certainly seems to be an interesting bird. While it does have more
white than shown by a typical *borealis* on the underside of the primaries,
the pattern isn't as distinctive as on those nice 'nailed on' *diomedea*,
and is somewhat ambiguous, at least from this one image alone. Howell and
Patteson (2008) state that 'those (birds) with less distinct pale fingers
on two or three primaries among P8-10 could be either Cory's or Scopoli's'.
Those with greater experience of Scopoli's than me, including either of the
aforementioned authors, may beg to differ, of course. On the plus side,
there's a single dark spot at the base of P10 on the underwing, which
favours Scopoli's over Cory's.
Are there any other images of this bird, no matter how bad?
Regards,
Harry Hussey

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Ken Blankenship <
kenhblankenship@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi, all.
>
> I'd like to get some opinions of the subject bird, which was photographed
> by Daniel Vickers off the Georgia coast on 26 August 2007. The underwing
> pattern is interesting, and at first look I thought it was pretty solid for
> Scopoli's. Still, I'm no pelagic expert, so the more feedback I can get,
> the better! You should be able to view the picture at this link:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Ken Blankenship
>
> Huachuca City, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Fall warbler in California
Date: Sun Sep 18 2016 1:18 am
From: LLSDIRONS AT msn.com
 
Noah,


Jeff is correct. This bird is a hatch-year Blackburnian Warbler. There's nothing about the quality of these photos that makes them ambiguous, or makes this bird overly difficult to ID. I am presuming that you had some idea what this bird was before you posted your query to ID-Frontiers.


This is generally not a "what's this?...it's that" forum like some of the pages found on Facebook, where folks post photos of a bird and hope for others to ID it for them. At times queries to this forum will include caveats such as, "I have my own thoughts...but I don't want to bias the thinking of others by saying what I think it is." This is particularly common with challenging Empids. The more common type of query on ID-Frontiers generally offers a putative ID of bird (often a local rarity) that is being debated for one reason or another. The dull Orange-crowned Warbler (some thought it might be a Tennessee) from earlier this week is a good example of this type of ID challenge. As I recall, you suggested that bird might be one of the Old World Phylloscopus warblers without supplying the forum with any supportive reasoning. A Phylloscopus warbler of any species would be highly unusual in California, thus it would have been appropriate to offer a credible argument to support your opinion. It's okay to be wrong, we've all been there, but unless we know how you got there we can't offer much help.


Before answering a question like the one you posed about this warbler, I would want to first ask you what you think the bird is and why. Only then can I or others in the forum help you enhance your ability to answer these questions for yourself. I know the cat is out of the bag on the Blackburnian Warbler, but I would still like to know what you thought this bird was before you posted your query. Further, what field marks led you to that conclusion?


Dave Irons

Portland, OR


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jeff Gilligan
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 5:21 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fall warbler in California

Blackburnian Warbler immature.

Jeff Gilligan



On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:17 PM, Noah Arthur wrote:

> Can this warbler be identified with 100% certainty, JUST from these two
> overexposed photos? If so, what is it?
>
> Here's the photos:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
[X]Sept. 17, 2016, photo #1

[https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/29643320302_de4bcac996_b.jpg][https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/29643320302_de4bcac996_b.jpg]




>
> Noah Arthur
> Oakland, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Fall warbler in California
Date: Sun Sep 18 2016 0:23 am
From: jeffgilligan10 AT gmail.com
 
Blackburnian Warbler immature.  

Jeff Gilligan



On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:17 PM, Noah Arthur wrote:

> Can this warbler be identified with 100% certainty, JUST from these two
> overexposed photos? If so, what is it?
>
> Here's the photos:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
> Noah Arthur
> Oakland, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Fall warbler in California
Date: Sun Sep 18 2016 0:18 am
From: semirelicta AT gmail.com
 
Can this warbler be identified with 100% certainty, JUST from these two
overexposed photos? If so, what is it?

Here's the photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Noah Arthur
Oakland, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 18:41 pm
From: mamlod AT hotmail.com
 
Folks, this may seem ludricrous, but this bird looks like a Warbling Vireo to me.--Mike M.


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Steve Hampton
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:44 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out. In any event, this bird is typical
of the gray-headed OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.



On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

> Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I
> think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty
> rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:
> BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
> All,
>
> Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming
> consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure
> (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).
>
> To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned
> Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious
> celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter <
> 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
> > them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> > --------------------------
> > Editor, Birder's Guide
> > American Birding Association
> > www.aba.org/birdersguide
> > Fort Worth, TX
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > From: Noah Arthur
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
> >
> > So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
> > quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like
> bill...
> > How about Phylloscopus sp?
> >
> > Noah
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
> >
> > > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> > > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
> > > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
> > >
> > > Dave Irons
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> > > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Orange-crowned.
> > > >
> > > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> > > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer
> extension.
> > > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
> > > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
> > > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
> > > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
> > > > check when sorting through the
> > hordes
> > > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
> > > > looking
> > > up
> > > > at them in the canopy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> > > >
> > > > Tennessee:
> > > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
> > > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_
> > IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
> > > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> > > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
> > > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
> > > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
> > > >
> > > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> > > 9992-700x463.jpg
> > > >
> > > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> > > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Orange-crowned:
> > > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> > > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> > > >
> > > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dean Edwards
> > > > Knoxville, TN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> All,
> > > >>
> > > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> > > >> from
> > > Putah
> > > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> > > >>
> > > >> eBird report with several photos at
> > > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > > >>
> > > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> > > yellower
> > > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
> > > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> > expression a
> > > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> > > >>
> > > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
> > > >> the
> > > gamut
> > > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Comments welcome.
> > > >>
> > > >> thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Steve Hampton
> > > >> Davis, CA
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > > >
> > > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> > >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

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Subject: Mystery Empidonax
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 17:59 pm
From: justin.bosler AT gmail.com
 
Hi Ian,
Does this photo of a Western-type Flycatcher show enough to evaluate the primary to tail projection ratio? This record was submitted to the Louisiana Bird Records Committee as a Pac-slope/Cordilleran Flycatcher and is still circulating in e-round voting, i.e. not likely to be accepted even as a "Western". More details about the bird can be found at the link.
https://flic.kr/p/qTRpEP Than... you for taking a look!Justin BoslerAustin, TSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Ian McLaren Date: 9/15/16 9:16 AM (GMT-06:00) To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax
I have been working up a paper with a tentative means of separating the 2 "Western Flys" using primary/tail projection on suitably posed images with the primaries close to parallel with the tail. A carefully selected known ones from VIREO gives these as 0.38-0.44 for Pacific-slope and 0.53-0.56 for Cordilleran. Michael Park's bird is ~0.39. Last fall's eastern influx of "Western" also fell almost entirely in the PSFL category.


Ian McLaren

________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jason Rogers
Sent: September 15, 2016 5:41:04 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax

Looks like a hatch-year Western Flycatcher to me. That's as far as I'll go. :)


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB



________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Michael Park
Sent: September 15, 2016 5:54 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax

I would some opinions on this Empidonax flycatcher. I believe the three images are of one individual. The images were taken on Sept. 13, 2016. I am withholding geographical information to illicit responses based on structure, molt and time of year.

The link is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

best,
Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

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Subject: Cory's/Scopoli's Shearwater, Georgia, USA 26 August 2007
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 15:27 pm
From: kenhblankenship AT comcast.net
 
Hi, all. 

I'd like to get some opinions of the subject bird, which was photographed by Daniel Vickers off the Georgia coast on 26 August 2007. The underwing pattern is interesting, and at first look I thought it was pretty solid for Scopoli's. Still, I'm no pelagic expert, so the more feedback I can get, the better! You should be able to view the picture at this link:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Thanks in advance!

Ken Blankenship

Huachuca City, AZ

 

 

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Empidonax no2
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 13:30 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
I would go with Least Flycatcher on this one.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Park
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:25 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Empidonax no2

Two images taken in the shade of an Empid. that I would like some comment on. Thanks in advance!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Empidonax no2
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 11:25 am
From: dpbot AT earthlink.net
 
Two images taken in the shade of an Empid. that I would like some comment on. Thanks in advance!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Mystery Empidonax
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 9:16 am
From: I.A.McLaren AT dal.ca
 
I have been working up a paper with a tentative means of separating the 2 "Western Flys" using primary/tail projection on suitably posed images with the primaries close to parallel with the tail. A carefully selected known ones from VIREO gives these as 0.38-0.44 for Pacific-slope and 0.53-0.56 for Cordilleran. Michael Park's bird is ~0.39. Last fall's eastern influx of "Western" also fell almost entirely in the PSFL category.


Ian McLaren

________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jason Rogers
Sent: September 15, 2016 5:41:04 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax

Looks like a hatch-year Western Flycatcher to me. That's as far as I'll go. :)


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB



________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Michael Park
Sent: September 15, 2016 5:54 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax

I would some opinions on this Empidonax flycatcher. I believe the three images are of one individual. The images were taken on Sept. 13, 2016. I am withholding geographical information to illicit responses based on structure, molt and time of year.

The link is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

best,
Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Mystery Empidonax
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 3:41 am
From: hawkowl AT hotmail.com
 
Looks like a hatch-year Western Flycatcher to me. That's as far as I'll go. :)


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB



________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Michael Park
Sent: September 15, 2016 5:54 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Empidonax

I would some opinions on this Empidonax flycatcher. I believe the three images are of one individual. The images were taken on Sept. 13, 2016. I am withholding geographical information to illicit responses based on structure, molt and time of year.

The link is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

best,
Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Mystery Empidonax again
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 0:59 am
From: dpbot AT earthlink.net
 
It should read ELICIT not illicit.

I didn't mean that we should outlaw or arrest the Empidonax for being so difficult. Although.....

Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Mystery Empidonax
Date: Thu Sep 15 2016 0:55 am
From: dpbot AT earthlink.net
 
I would some opinions on this Empidonax flycatcher. I believe the three images are of one individual. The images were taken on Sept. 13, 2016. I am withholding geographical information to illicit responses based on structure, molt and time of year.

The link is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

best,
Michael Park

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Archilochus sp central Kansas
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 16:52 pm
From: josephlowellmiller AT gmail.com
 
Hi all, back in mid-August I had an interesting hummingbird at my feeders
here in central Kansas. It didn't stick around long and the few photos

I was able to get were pretty mediocre. Looking at the in-flight photos the
outer primaries seem really broad and blunt-tipped. Unfortunately, the bird
never actually perched on the feeder so I wasn't able to double-check the
primaries and wing/tail length etc. I'm not very confident with the ID
without having seen other supporting features, so I'm curious to hear what
your thoughts are on this bird.

Thanks,

Joseph Miller
Nickerson, Kansas
Reno County Birdmen

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 13:25 pm
From: LLSDIRONS AT msn.com
 
Joe et al.,


I agree that there is overlap in orestera/celata, but I don't believe that this bird falls into the range of orestera. O. c. orestera is the expected breeding subspecies in the mountains (Wallowas and Blues) of northeastern Oregon and is the default form found in fall migration at the Harney County oases. Just a week ago I was over birding in northeastern Oregon and I found several migrant Orange-crowned Warblers. All were presumed HY orestera based on their appearance. We get a few such birds that pass through western Oregon in fall migration as well.


There is one feature that I have found to be consistent in orestera at all seasons and in all age classes (particularly so with HY birds). The throat of orestera is typically quite yellow, often more rich than the yellow anywhere else on the underparts, though some of the fall migrants in e. Oregon are uniformly yellow from throat to undertail. In my experience, the yellow throat always looks to varying degrees framed by the grayer or dull olive auriculars, which for the most part lack yellow tones, especially on HY birds. This creates a hooded look to the head. I don't see these features on this bird.


If one pokes around through photos of really dull Orange-crowned Warblers, most all of the birds that somewhat resemble this one (like the one in Giff Beaton's gallery) are fall birds presumed HYthat have been photographed in the east during migration, or wintering in the southeastern U.S. I see a few presumed celata as both spring and fall migrants here in Oregon. In the Willamette Valley we get a later wave (early to mid-May) of northbound Orange-crowneds that are fully a month behind the arrival of local breeding lutescens. These birds are much paler below and grayer on the head and mantle than lutescens. I assume these are birds that breed at more northerly locations in western Canada and Alaska. In fall migration I see far fewer Orange-crowneds that suggest celata in Oregon, even at the eastern Oregon oases. The birds that are presumed celata don't seem to show the rich yellow throat that I typically see on orestera and the head of celata typically does not look hooded, as it typically does on orestera. Perhaps I have created my own positive feedback loop with regards to this head pattern, but it seems to hold up when I'm birding in places where orestera is the default subspecies present.


Over the past 6-7 years I've taken many hundreds of photos (maybe more than a thousand) photos of Orange-crowned Warblers in Oregon, California, Washington, Montana and Texas in an effort to get a better handle of subspecific differences in these birds. Based on what I've learned to this point, I feel pretty comfortable opining that this is not an orestera.


Dave Irons

Portland, OR


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Joseph Morlan
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 5:25 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

I think there is some overlap in orestera/celata and distinguishing them
outside of their breeding range may not always be possible. There are some
differences in measurements with orestera slightly larger.

A few fall birds with little or no yellow I think are safely considered to
be nominate celata. Here is an example...

https://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/...

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:49:02 +0000, "Lethaby, Nick"
wrote:

>In the Santa Barbara area, we regularly see orestera in fall and they seem to be pretty consistently quite bright yellow below. I think I have seen birds like the one below perhaps just 2-3 times over the years although I have only really got serious about looking at OCWAs in the last few years. Re: the bird below, I would likely
lean to celata strongly but Id like to see how gray it was above etc.
>
>From: Steve Hampton [mailto:stevechampton@gmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:45 AM
>To: Lethaby, Nick
>Cc: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
>Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out. In any event, this bird is typical of the gray-headed OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.
>
>
>
>On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
>All,
>
>Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).
>
>To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter < 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
>> them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
>> --------------------------
>> Editor, Birder's Guide
>> American Birding Association
>> www.aba.org/birdersguide> Fort Worth, TX
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> From: Noah Arthur
>> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>>
>> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
>> quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
>> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>>
>> Noah
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>>
>> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
>> > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
>> > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
>> >
>> > Dave Irons
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
>> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Orange-crowned.
>> > >
>> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
>> > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
>> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
>> > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
>> > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
>> > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
>> > > check when sorting through the
>> hordes
>> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
>> > > looking
>> > up
>> > > at them in the canopy.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
>> > >
>> > > Tennessee:
>> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
>> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_
>> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
>> > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
>> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
>> > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
>> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
>> > >
>> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
>> > 9992-700x463.jpg
>> > >
>> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
>> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
>> > >
>> > > Orange-crowned:
>> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
>> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
>> > >
>> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dean Edwards
>> > > Knoxville, TN
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> All,
>> > >>
>> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
>> > >> from
>> > Putah
>> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>> > >>
>> > >> eBird report with several photos at
>> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>> > >>
>> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
>> > yellower
>> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
>> > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
>> expression a
>> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
>> > >>
>> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
>> > >> the
>> > gamut
>> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>> > >>
>> > >> Comments welcome.
>> > >>
>> > >> thanks,
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Steve Hampton
>> > >> Davis, CA
>> > >>
>> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>> > >
>> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>> >
>> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>> >
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Steve Hampton
>Davis, CA
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 13:10 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
We've had this discussion several times. On the 
Farallones we get all three subspecies in fall,
and I've had 1-2 observations of what could have
been sordida as well. For some reason lutescens
is uncommon. Off the top of my head the fall
proportions are about 70% lutescens, 20%
orestera, and 10% celata. We have our means to
identify all three (accounting for age/sex) but I
admit some can be tricky, especially between orestera and celata.

Of the birds considered in this thread I'd call
the first one a dull first-fall female lutescens
(near the extreme dull end but not anomalous),
the white-vented one the same day as a first-fall
male or adult female celata, and Joe's bird as a
first-fall female celata. The orestera that we
identify tend to be greener or yellower than
these last two birds and have indistinctly
streaked breasts and less-distinct gray to grayish-washed heads.

Peter

At 10:25 AM 9/14/2016, Joseph Morlan wrote:
>I think there is some overlap in orestera/celata and distinguishing them
>outside of their breeding range may not always be possible. There are some
>differences in measurements with orestera slightly larger.
>
>A few fall birds with little or no yellow I think are safely considered to
>be nominate celata. Here is an example...
>
>https://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/...
>
>On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:49:02 +0000, "Lethaby, Nick"
>wrote:
>
> >In the Santa Barbara area, we regularly see
> orestera in fall and they seem to be pretty
> consistently quite bright yellow below. I think
> I have seen birds like the one below perhaps
> just 2-3 times over the years although I have
> only really got serious about looking at OCWAs
> in the last few years. Re: the bird below, I would likely
>lean to celata strongly but I’d like to see how gray it was above etc.
> >
> >From: Steve Hampton [mailto:stevechampton@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:45 AM
> >To: Lethaby, Nick
> >Cc: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
> >
> >Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out. In any
> event, this bird is typical of the gray-headed
> OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick
> wrote:
> >Is there consensus that the bird below is in
> fact an obvious celata? I think it may well be
> but I am under the impression that celata is
> pretty rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field
> Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
> >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Thanks to the many replies, both to the group
> and privately. Overwhelming consensus is for
> "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on
> structure (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).
> >
> >To provide another (more extreme) example of a
> white-vented Orange-crowned Warbler, Mark
> Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of
> an obvious celata OCWA with a white vent, taken
> the same day several miles away.
> >
> >https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P.
> Retter <
> 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
> >> them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> >> --------------------------
> >> Editor, Birder's Guide
> >> American Birding Association
> >> www.aba.org/birdersguide
> >> Fort Worth, TX
> >> ---------------------------
> >>
> >> From: Noah Arthur
>
> >> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
> >>
> >> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
> >> quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a
> blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> >> How about Phylloscopus sp?
> >>
> >> Noah
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> >> > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
> >> > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
> >> >
> >> > Dave Irons
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM,
> "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> >> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Orange-crowned.
> >> > >
> >> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> >> > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned
> has a significantly longer extension.
> >> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
> >> > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
> >> > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
> >> > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
> >> > > check when sorting through the
> >> hordes
> >> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
> >> > > looking
> >> > up
> >> > > at them in the canopy.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> >> > >
> >> > > Tennessee:
> >> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
> >> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_
> >> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
> >> >
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> >> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
> >> > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
> >> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> >> > 9992-700x463.jpg
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> >> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> >> > >
> >> > > Orange-crowned:
> >> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> >> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> >> > >
> >> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Dean Edwards
> >> > > Knoxville, TN
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> All,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> >> > >> from
> >> > Putah
> >> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> eBird report with several photos at
> >> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >> > >>
> >> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> >> > yellower
> >> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
> >> > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> >> expression a
> >> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
> >> > >> the
> >> > gamut
> >> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Comments welcome.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> thanks,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Steve Hampton
> >> > >> Davis, CA
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >> > >
> >> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >> >
> >> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Steve Hampton
> >Davis, CA
> >Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>--
>Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 12:25 pm
From: jmorlan AT gmail.com
 
I think there is some overlap in orestera/celata and distinguishing them
outside of their breeding range may not always be possible. There are some
differences in measurements with orestera slightly larger.

A few fall birds with little or no yellow I think are safely considered to
be nominate celata. Here is an example...

https://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/...

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:49:02 +0000, "Lethaby, Nick"
wrote:

>In the Santa Barbara area, we regularly see orestera in fall and they seem to be pretty consistently quite bright yellow below. I think I have seen birds like the one below perhaps just 2-3 times over the years although I have only really got serious about looking at OCWAs in the last few years. Re: the bird below, I would likely
lean to celata strongly but I’d like to see how gray it was above etc.
>
>From: Steve Hampton [mailto:stevechampton@gmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:45 AM
>To: Lethaby, Nick
>Cc: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
>Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out. In any event, this bird is typical of the gray-headed OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.
>
>
>
>On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
>All,
>
>Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).
>
>To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter < 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
>> them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
>> --------------------------
>> Editor, Birder's Guide
>> American Birding Association
>> www.aba.org/birdersguide
>> Fort Worth, TX
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> From: Noah Arthur
>> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>>
>> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
>> quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
>> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>>
>> Noah
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>>
>> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
>> > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
>> > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
>> >
>> > Dave Irons
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
>> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Orange-crowned.
>> > >
>> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
>> > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
>> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
>> > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
>> > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
>> > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
>> > > check when sorting through the
>> hordes
>> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
>> > > looking
>> > up
>> > > at them in the canopy.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
>> > >
>> > > Tennessee:
>> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source>> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_
>> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url>> > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
>> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
>> > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig>> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
>> > >
>> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
>> > 9992-700x463.jpg
>> > >
>> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
>> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
>> > >
>> > > Orange-crowned:
>> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
>> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
>> > >
>> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dean Edwards
>> > > Knoxville, TN
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> All,
>> > >>
>> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
>> > >> from
>> > Putah
>> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>> > >>
>> > >> eBird report with several photos at
>> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>> > >>
>> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
>> > yellower
>> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
>> > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
>> expression a
>> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
>> > >>
>> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
>> > >> the
>> > gamut
>> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>> > >>
>> > >> Comments welcome.
>> > >>
>> > >> thanks,
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Steve Hampton
>> > >> Davis, CA
>> > >>
>> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>> > >
>> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>> >
>> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>> >
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Steve Hampton
>Davis, CA
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 11:50 am
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
In the Santa Barbara area, we regularly see orestera in fall and they seem to be pretty consistently quite bright yellow below. I think I have seen birds like the one below perhaps just 2-3 times over the years although I have only really got serious about looking at OCWAs in the last few years. Re: the bird below, I would likely lean to celata strongly but I’d like to see how gray it was above etc.

From: Steve Hampton [mailto:stevechampton@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:45 AM
To: Lethaby, Nick
Cc: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out. In any event, this bird is typical of the gray-headed OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.



On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

All,

Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).

To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...



On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter < 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
> them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> --------------------------
> Editor, Birder's Guide
> American Birding Association
> www.aba.org/birdersguide
> Fort Worth, TX
> ---------------------------
>
> From: Noah Arthur
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
> quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>
> Noah
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
> > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
> >
> > Dave Irons
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned.
> > >
> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
> > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
> > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
> > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
> > > check when sorting through the
> hordes
> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
> > > looking
> > up
> > > at them in the canopy.
> > >
> > >
> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> > >
> > > Tennessee:
> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_
> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url> > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
> > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> > >
> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> > 9992-700x463.jpg
> > >
> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned:
> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> > >
> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> > >
> > >
> > > Dean Edwards
> > > Knoxville, TN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> > >>
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> > >> from
> > Putah
> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> > >>
> > >> eBird report with several photos at
> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > >>
> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> > yellower
> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
> > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> expression a
> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> > >>
> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
> > >> the
> > gamut
> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> > >>
> > >> Comments welcome.
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Steve Hampton
> > >> Davis, CA
> > >>
> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 11:45 am
From: stevechampton AT gmail.com
 
Correct, orestra cannot be ruled out.  In any event, this bird is typical
of the gray-headed OCWA we see, except of course for the pale vent.



On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

> Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I
> think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty
> rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:
> BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
> All,
>
> Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming
> consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure
> (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).
>
> To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned
> Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious
> celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter <
> 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
> > them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> > --------------------------
> > Editor, Birder's Guide
> > American Birding Association
> > www.aba.org/birdersguide
> > Fort Worth, TX
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > From: Noah Arthur
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
> >
> > So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
> > quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like
> bill...
> > How about Phylloscopus sp?
> >
> > Noah
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
> >
> > > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> > > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
> > > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
> > >
> > > Dave Irons
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> > > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Orange-crowned.
> > > >
> > > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> > > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer
> extension.
> > > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
> > > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
> > > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
> > > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
> > > > check when sorting through the
> > hordes
> > > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
> > > > looking
> > > up
> > > > at them in the canopy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> > > >
> > > > Tennessee:
> > > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> > > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_
> > IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url> > > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> > > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
> > > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> > > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> > > >
> > > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> > > 9992-700x463.jpg
> > > >
> > > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> > > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Orange-crowned:
> > > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> > > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> > > >
> > > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dean Edwards
> > > > Knoxville, TN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> All,
> > > >>
> > > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> > > >> from
> > > Putah
> > > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> > > >>
> > > >> eBird report with several photos at
> > > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > > >>
> > > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> > > yellower
> > > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
> > > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> > expression a
> > > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> > > >>
> > > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
> > > >> the
> > > gamut
> > > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Comments welcome.
> > > >>
> > > >> thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Steve Hampton
> > > >> Davis, CA
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > > >
> > > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> > >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 11:32 am
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
Is there consensus that the bird below is in fact an obvious celata? I think it may well be but I am under the impression that celata is pretty rare in CA (as in similar to Blackburnian or Canada Warbler status).

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

All,

Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure (long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).

To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...



On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter < 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows
> them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> --------------------------
> Editor, Birder's Guide
> American Birding Association
> www.aba.org/birdersguide
> Fort Worth, TX
> ---------------------------
>
> From: Noah Arthur
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really
> quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>
> Noah
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> > otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick
> > L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
> >
> > Dave Irons
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned.
> > >
> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> > > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long
> > > tail for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a
> > > few other things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of
> > > single wing bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I
> > > check when sorting through the
> hordes
> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when
> > > looking
> > up
> > > at them in the canopy.
> > >
> > >
> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> > >
> > > Tennessee:
> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_
> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url> > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26u
> > id% 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> > >
> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> > 9992-700x463.jpg
> > >
> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned:
> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> > >
> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> > >
> > >
> > > Dean Edwards
> > > Knoxville, TN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> > >>
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> > >> from
> > Putah
> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> > >>
> > >> eBird report with several photos at
> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > >>
> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> > yellower
> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions),
> > >> and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> expression a
> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> > >>
> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running
> > >> the
> > gamut
> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> > >>
> > >> Comments welcome.
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Steve Hampton
> > >> Davis, CA
> > >>
> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Wed Sep 14 2016 8:40 am
From: stevechampton AT gmail.com
 
All,

Thanks to the many replies, both to the group and privately. Overwhelming
consensus is for "odd" Orange-cr Warbler, especially based on structure
(long tail and short primaries-- TN is the reverse).

To provide another (more extreme) example of a white-vented Orange-crowned
Warbler, Mark Sawyer has allowed me to post these two pics of an obvious
celata OCWA with a white vent, taken the same day several miles away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...



On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Michael L. P. Retter <
000001b489f19823-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows them
> well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
> --------------------------
> Editor, Birder's Guide
> American Birding Association
> www.aba.org/birdersguide
> Fort Worth, TX
> ---------------------------
>
> From: Noah Arthur
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
>
> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite
> match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>
> Noah
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> > I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise
> > this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of
> > the nominate subspecies celata.
> >
> > Dave Irons
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> > kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned.
> > >
> > > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
> > > seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
> > > the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other things
> > > that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
> > > tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the
> hordes
> > > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking
> > up
> > > at them in the canopy.
> > >
> > >
> > > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> > >
> > > Tennessee:
> > > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> > images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_
> IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url> > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> > 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%
> > 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> > AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> > >
> > > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> > 9992-700x463.jpg
> > >
> > > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> > Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> > >
> > > Orange-crowned:
> > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> > crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> > >
> > > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> > >
> > >
> > > Dean Edwards
> > > Knoxville, TN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> > >>
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from
> > Putah
> > >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> > >>
> > >> eBird report with several photos at
> > >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > >>
> > >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> > yellower
> > >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
> > >> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> expression a
> > >> little like Philly Vireo.
> > >>
> > >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
> > gamut
> > >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> > >>
> > >> Comments welcome.
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Steve Hampton
> > >> Davis, CA
> > >>
> > >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
> >
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 17:49 pm
From: 000001b489f19823-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Um, no. I doubt very much it resembles a Phyllosc to anyone who knows them well. It's an Orange-crowned Warbler. Michael L. P. Retter
--------------------------
Editor, Birder's Guide
American Birding Association
www.aba.org/birdersguide
Fort Worth, TX
---------------------------

From: Noah Arthur
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite
match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
How about Phylloscopus sp?

Noah

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:

> I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise
> this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of
> the nominate subspecies celata.
>
> Dave Irons
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > Orange-crowned.
> >
> > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
> > seen from below.  Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
> > the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned.  There are a few other things
> > that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
> > tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the hordes
> > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking
> up
> > at them in the canopy.
> >
> >
> > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> >
> > Tennessee:
> > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
> images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%
> 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
> AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
> >
> > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> 9992-700x463.jpg
> >
> > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> >
> > Orange-crowned:
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> >
> > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> >
> >
> > Dean Edwards
> > Knoxville, TN
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> This bird is generating some discussion in California.  It comes from
> Putah
> >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> >>
> >> eBird report with several photos at
> >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >>
> >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> yellower
> >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
> >> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
> >> little like Philly Vireo.
> >>
> >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
> gamut
> >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> >>
> >> Comments welcome.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Hampton
> >> Davis, CA
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html




Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 16:06 pm
From: 000001b307c51551-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Nope - not a Phylloscopus - can't think of any that really look like this bird. Agree it's a pigment challenged Orange-crowned Warbler.

Cheers
Steve Huggins

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:51 PM, Noah Arthur wrote:
>
> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite
> match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>
> Noah
>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>>
>> I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise
>> this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of
>> the nominate subspecies celata.
>>
>> Dave Irons
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
>>> kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> Orange-crowned.
>>>
>>> Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
>>> seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
>>> The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
>>> the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other things
>>> that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
>>> tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the hordes
>>> of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking
>> up
>>> at them in the canopy.
>>>
>>>
>>> A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
>>>
>>> Tennessee:
>>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
>> images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
>> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
>> 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%
>> 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
>> AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
>>>
>>> http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
>> 9992-700x463.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
>> Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
>>>
>>> Orange-crowned:
>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
>> crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
>>>
>>> http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean Edwards
>>> Knoxville, TN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from
>> Putah
>>>> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>>>>
>>>> eBird report with several photos at
>>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>>>
>>>> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
>> yellower
>>>> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
>>>> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
>>>> little like Philly Vireo.
>>>>
>>>> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
>> gamut
>>>> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>>>>
>>>> Comments welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Hampton
>>>> Davis, CA
>>>>
>>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>>
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 15:55 pm
From: jsterling AT wavecable.com
 
these very dull Orange-crowns show up in California in fall in small numbers and are not too out of the ordinary if you check 100s of Orange-crowns each fall


John Sterling
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

26 Palm Ave
Woodland, CA 95695
530 908-3836
jsterling@wavecable.com
www.sterlingbirds.com

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Noah Arthur wrote:
>
> So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite
> match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
> How about Phylloscopus sp?
>
> Noah
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
>> I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise
>> this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of
>> the nominate subspecies celata.
>>
>> Dave Irons
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
>> kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> Orange-crowned.
>>>
>>> Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
>>> seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
>>> The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
>>> the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other things
>>> that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
>>> tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the hordes
>>> of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking
>> up
>>> at them in the canopy.
>>>
>>>
>>> A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
>>>
>>> Tennessee:
>>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=
>> images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=
>> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
>> 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%
>> 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=
>> AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
>>>
>>> http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
>> 9992-700x463.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
>> Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
>>>
>>> Orange-crowned:
>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
>> crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
>>>
>>> http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean Edwards
>>> Knoxville, TN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from
>> Putah
>>>> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>>>>
>>>> eBird report with several photos at
>>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>>>
>>>> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
>> yellower
>>>> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
>>>> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
>>>> little like Philly Vireo.
>>>>
>>>> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
>> gamut
>>>> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>>>>
>>>> Comments welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Hampton
>>>> Davis, CA
>>>>
>>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>>
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 15:53 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
It's a much closer match to an OCWA than any phylloscopus.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Noah Arthur
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:52 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
How about Phylloscopus sp?

Noah

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:

> I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but
> otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L.
> suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata.
>
> Dave Irons
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > Orange-crowned.
> >
> > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts
> > when seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail
> > for the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other
> > things that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing
> > bar), but the tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting
> > through the hordes of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which
> > is handy when looking
> up
> > at them in the canopy.
> >
> >
> > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> >
> > Tennessee:
> > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&
> url= http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid
> % 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> >
> > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> 9992-700x463.jpg
> >
> > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> >
> > Orange-crowned:
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> >
> > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> >
> >
> > Dean Edwards
> > Knoxville, TN
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes
> >> from
> Putah
> >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> >>
> >> eBird report with several photos at
> >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >>
> >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> yellower
> >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and
> >> a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial
> >> expression a little like Philly Vireo.
> >>
> >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
> gamut
> >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> >>
> >> Comments welcome.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Hampton
> >> Davis, CA
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 15:51 pm
From: semirelicta AT gmail.com
 
So... It's a very funny-looking OCWA-ish warbler that doesn't really quite
match any form of OCWA, and it has a blunt, non-Oreothlypis-like bill...
How about Phylloscopus sp?

Noah

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, David Irons wrote:

> I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise
> this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of
> the nominate subspecies celata.
>
> Dave Irons
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" <
> kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > Orange-crowned.
> >
> > Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
> > seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> > The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
> > the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other things
> > that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
> > tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the hordes
> > of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking
> up
> > at them in the canopy.
> >
> >
> > A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
> >
> > Tennessee:
> > https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source> images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8ved
hUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%
> 3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%
> 3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig> AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust73877088479233
> >
> > http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
> 9992-700x463.jpg
> >
> > http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
> Tennessee-Warbler_7964v-cr.jpg
> >
> > Orange-crowned:
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
> crowned_Warbler_741289647.jpg
> >
> > http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
> >
> >
> > Dean Edwards
> > Knoxville, TN
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from
> Putah
> >> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
> >>
> >> eBird report with several photos at
> >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >>
> >> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent,
> yellower
> >> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
> >> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
> >> little like Philly Vireo.
> >>
> >> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the
> gamut
> >> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
> >>
> >> Comments welcome.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Hampton
> >> Davis, CA
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 15:32 pm
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
I have no explanation for the very pale undertail coverts, but otherwise this looks like a dull Orange-crowned Warbler and as Nick L. suggests, of the nominate subspecies celata. 

Dave Irons

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:50 AM, "kde@ANGST.ENGR.UTK.EDU" wrote:
>
> Orange-crowned.
>
> Tennessee has a VERY short tail extension beyond undertail coverts when
> seen from below. Orange-crowned has a significantly longer extension.
> The third photo in particular, ML34688711, shows a fairly long tail for
> the CA bird which matches Orange-crowned. There are a few other things
> that look better for OCWA to me (like lack of single wing bar), but the
> tail extension is the first thing I check when sorting through the hordes
> of fall TEWA for the odd OCWA here in TN... which is handy when looking up
> at them in the canopy.
>
>
> A few examples of the tail extension from Google...
>
> Tennessee:
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivlqKt_IzPAhVGwWMKHWrPBJQQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnwatchablewildlife.org%2Fdetails.cfm%3Fdisplayhabitat%3Dforest%26sort%3Daounumber%26typename%3DFOREST%26uid%3D09052508392888912%26commonname%3DTennessee%2520Warbler&psig=AFQjCNGpxidTjJxLhH6ZoSrQP8jvS-Zx0Q&ust=1473877088479233
>
> http://www.nemesisbird.com/wp-...
>
> http://www.birdspix.com/wp-con...
>
> Orange-crowned:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...
>
> http://sdakotabirds.com/specie...
>
>
> Dean Edwards
> Knoxville, TN
>
>
>
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Steve Hampton wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from Putah
>> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>>
>> eBird report with several photos at
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent, yellower
>> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
>> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
>> little like Philly Vireo.
>>
>> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the gamut
>> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Steve Hampton
>> Davis, CA
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 14:28 pm
From: giffbeaton AT mindspring.com
 
Steve et al: In addition to the length of the ut coverts as pointed out by Julian and Dean, the color of the ut coverts is wrong as is the primary extension for Tennessee. On Tennessee, the ut coverts are the whitest part of the underside, while on Orange-crowned they are typically the yellowest (at least in the East). The primary extension is quite long on Tennessee, and quite short on OC. You can see this well in the first image on the checklist. 

I have a series of images that show all these features for both species here if anyone is interested, just scroll down to Oreothlypis:

http://www.giffbeaton.com/warb...

Having said all that, it is an odd looking OC and Im not surprised it is generating some discussion. The bill does not look Oreothlypis-like (or Vermivora-like for old-timers) to me, being rather short and blunt, and as pointed out earlier the ut coverts are not any brighter than the rest of the underparts. But the combination of plumage features and primary extension certainly looks best for OC.

Giff Beaton
Marietta GA


On Sep 13, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Steve Hampton wrote:

> All,
>
> This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from Putah
> Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.
>
> eBird report with several photos at
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent, yellower
> up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a
> slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a
> little like Philly Vireo.
>
> Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the gamut
> from paler and grayer to bright yellow.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> thanks,
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 14:14 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
Steve,

This is an interesting bird for sure, but I would go with an Orange-crowned for sure. It seems very odd thought in that it lacks yellow below AND doesn't show any contrasting gray head. If it had a gray head, I would suggest nominate celata might be considered.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 10:49 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

All,

This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from Putah Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.

eBird report with several photos at
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent, yellower up the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a slightly curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a little like Philly Vireo.

Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the gamut from paler and grayer to bright yellow.

Comments welcome.

thanks,

--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html



Subject: Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif
Date: Tue Sep 13 2016 14:02 pm
From: andrew AT natsp.com
 
Combined with the not-white UTCs and long tail is the little light
feathering under the alula, which is different to the sometimes seen in
fresh birds covert tip in Tennessee.



Cheers,



Andrew Haffenden




-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Hampton
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 12:49 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tennessee-ish Warbler in Calif

All,

This bird is generating some discussion in California. It comes from Putah
Creek, Davis, Yolo County, on Sept 9.

eBird report with several photos at
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

In the field, it had a creamy white (but not bright white) vent, yellower up
the breast (with an ochre cast in some lighting conditions), and a slightly
curved supercilium and dark lore creating a facial expression a little like
Philly Vireo.

Orange-crowns are common here, and are highly variable, running the gamut
from paler and grayer to bright yellow.

Comments welcome.

thanks,

--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html


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