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Updated on March 26, 2017, 3:00 am

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26 Mar: @ 02:57:38 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Michael O'Keeffe]
25 Mar: @ 19:59:34 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Glenn d'Entremont]
25 Mar: @ 03:36:31 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Joseph Morlan]
24 Mar: @ 14:16:29  Florida grebe [KEVIN karlson]
24 Mar: @ 11:51:11 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Jon Ruddy]
24 Mar: @ 10:28:38 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Tony Leukering]
24 Mar: @ 09:51:34 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Hugh McGuinness]
24 Mar: @ 09:36:42 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Steve Hampton]
24 Mar: @ 08:08:46 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Joseph Morlan]
24 Mar: @ 06:12:57  Response Protocol? [Bates Estabrooks]
24 Mar: @ 02:27:48  Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II [Bill Pranty]
22 Mar: @ 18:49:40 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jon Ruddy]
22 Mar: @ 16:46:11 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Lethaby, Nick]
22 Mar: @ 16:03:33 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Wayne Hoffman]
22 Mar: @ 15:01:01 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [KEVIN karlson]
22 Mar: @ 01:10:58 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [David Irons]
21 Mar: @ 23:30:57 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jason Rogers]
21 Mar: @ 23:18:50 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jeff Gilligan]
21 Mar: @ 22:52:55 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jeff Gilligan]
21 Mar: @ 22:30:52 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [David Irons]
21 Mar: @ 22:25:51 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Kevin McLaughlin]
21 Mar: @ 22:06:02 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jeff Gilligan]
21 Mar: @ 22:03:11 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Jason Rogers]
21 Mar: @ 21:36:11 Re: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Steve Hampton]
21 Mar: @ 21:26:28  Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida [Bill Pranty]
10 Mar: @ 17:59:47 Re: seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario [Shaibal Mitra]
10 Mar: @ 16:59:10 Re: seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario [Tony Leukering]
10 Mar: @ 15:33:23  seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario [Mike Burrell]
06 Mar: @ 11:59:46  Faeder male Ruff ID [Nick Bonomo]
03 Mar: @ 14:13:47 Re: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [Blake Mathys]
03 Mar: @ 13:43:42 Re: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [Lethaby, Nick]
03 Mar: @ 13:35:01 Re: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [The HH75]
03 Mar: @ 10:16:38 Re: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [Lethaby, Nick]
03 Mar: @ 09:11:58 Re: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [Peter Wilkinson]
01 Mar: @ 15:17:39 Re: another iNaturalist Gull query [Alvaro Jaramillo]
01 Mar: @ 15:12:00 Re: another iNaturalist Gull query [Amar Ayyash]
01 Mar: @ 15:08:24  another iNaturalist Gull query [Mike Patterson]
27 Feb: @ 09:52:04 Re: Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes [Brent Bomkamp]
27 Feb: @ 09:48:06 Re: Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes [Tony Leukering]
27 Feb: @ 09:02:18  Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes [Brent Bomkamp]
26 Feb: @ 17:26:39 Re: Fwd: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Lethaby, Nick]
26 Feb: @ 16:53:49  Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color [Lethaby, Nick]
26 Feb: @ 09:14:07  Fwd: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Tony Leukering]
26 Feb: @ 08:34:37 Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Tony Leukering]
25 Feb: @ 20:16:50 Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Brian Sullivan]
25 Feb: @ 17:32:52 Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Jeff Davis]
25 Feb: @ 17:09:36 Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [BRUCE DEUEL]
25 Feb: @ 16:09:07  Red-naped Sapsucker appearance [Tony Leukering]
22 Feb: @ 21:24:22  Wren ID [Ross Silcock]





Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Sun Mar 26 2017 2:57 am
From: okeeffeml AT eircom.net
 
Hi,

The better images at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch... confirm its a Horned (Slavonian) Grebe. Unfortunate that all images to date appear more or less in silhouette. But even in spite of that, overall structure fits Horned, especially the flat crown. The bill shape can be a little hard to discern due to back lighting but fits Horned, with no indication of an upturn (eg. ML52135671 and ML52135681). And, it clearly has a pale tip as others have pointed out. Also others have commented the breeding plumage pattern coming through on the head fits Horned perfectly, including the golden feathering above and behind the eye, extending clearly onto the lores (eg. ML52135741). I note Glenn d'Entremont's comments re reddish colour on the lower neck but Eared (Black-necked) can also show this before attaining it's full, black breeding plumage. I don't think there is any reason to suspect a hybrid.

Regards

Mike O'Keeffe
Ireland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn d'Entremont"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Sunday, 26 March, 2017 00:59:26
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II

This bird looks shaped like a Horned IMO with low sleeked back and an elongated crown with no peak.


Is it my monitor, but in images ML52135681 and ML52135781 does it appear to show a reddish color near the lower neck? This also appears in the reflection in the water on ....681. This is only on the right side I do not get that from with the bird facing left.


Anyone else getting this impression/color?


Glenn


Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1@comcast.net Stoughton, MA


>
> On March 24, 2017 at 3:27 AM Bill Pranty wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may never be settled).
>
> My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
>
> Thanks to all who have already commented.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill
>
> --
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Sat Mar 25 2017 19:59 pm
From: gdentremont1 AT comcast.net
 
This bird looks shaped like a Horned IMO with low sleeked back and an elongated crown with no peak.


Is it my monitor, but in images ML52135681 and ML52135781 does it appear to show a reddish color near the lower neck? This also appears in the reflection in the water on ....681. This is only on the right side I do not get that from with the bird facing left.


Anyone else getting this impression/color?


Glenn


Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1@comcast.net Stoughton, MA


>
> On March 24, 2017 at 3:27 AM Bill Pranty wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may never be settled).
>
> My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
>
> Thanks to all who have already commented.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill
>
> --
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Sat Mar 25 2017 3:36 am
From: jmorlan AT gmail.com
 
I was unaware that Horned and Eared Grebes are known to hybridize so I did
a brief literature search and came up with this:

Dennis, R. H. 1973. Possible interbreeding of Slavonian Grebe and
Black-necked Grebe in Scotland. Scott. Birds no. 7:307-308.

The text is online at...

http://biodiversitylibrary.org...

http://biodiversitylibrary.org...

That's all I could find so far.


On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:23:30 -0500, Tony Leukering
<000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.KSU.EDU> wrote:

>All:
>
>I think that this bird is simply odd. To me, the shape of the bill is like that of Eared (EAGR), though the bird does seem to sport the white tip of Horned (HOGR). Also, EAGR usually shows (in front view) the head being the same width as the neck. The Anclote bird's head is slightly wider than the neck, but not as wide as typical of HOGR. Though the head seems to be molting, thus exhibiting an odd shape, the shape seems to be intermediate between the two species. The absolute thickness of the neck seems like the thin-necked look of EAGR.
>
>The above suggests a hybrid to me, and I have thought so since Bill posted the first checklist to this venue, though I've been hesitant to say such, as some already think that I am too hybrid-happy. However, Michael O'Brien chimed in privately to me with the same opinion. So, now that I'm in some fairly august company, I'll step out on that thin limb.
>
>Tony
>
>Tony Leukering
>Largo, FL
>www.aba.org/photoquiz/
>www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering
>http://cowyebird.blogspot.com
>
>> On Mar 24, 2017, at 09:34, Steve Hampton wrote:
>>
>> I agree and change my vote to a ratty Horned Grebe. The new photos show a
>> pale tip to the bill, an offset white check, and lower head and back
>> profile, and a bright red line to the eye (barely).
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Joseph Morlan wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
>>> are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic Eared
>>> Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:
>>>
>>> https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...
>>>
>>> One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape line
>>> between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
>>> this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
>>> and less distinct.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good morning,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the
>>> Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther
>>> offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the
>>> confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may
>>> never be settled).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally
>>> common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been
>>> documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an
>>> Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all who have already commented.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>> --
>>> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
>>>
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Hampton
>> Davis, CA
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Florida grebe
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 14:16 pm
From: karlson3 AT comcast.net
 
After seeing Bill's new photos, I must say that the head shape appears better for Horned Grebe, as does the incoming plumage features. The body also seems to be riding quite low in the water, similar to Horned Grebe, and the rear body does not seem to be elevated, like in Eared Grebe. However, I cannot come to grips with the bill shape, which is completely Eared Grebe in size and shape, and with the very thin neck. I have to side with Tony Leukering's comments on a possible hybrid, although I have nothing to fall back on with respect to this combination. Interesting bird. Good luck with this one, Bill. Kevin Karlson

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 11:51 am
From: accipitriformes AT gmail.com
 
Hi there,

In reviewing Bill's improved photographs of the bird, I'm increasing my
confidence level regarding this bird as a transitional HOGR. In all of
Bill's photos, the low, gently-rising forehead and long, flat crown show
through. Not seeing the sharp rise to the forehead, and puffy, peaked crown
as in EAGR; there's "a lot of head" above the eye in EAGR...not so in this
bird. Even if feathers are to do with this impression, I imagine the skull
shape itself differs. In each of these new photos, the bird is riding quite
low in the water, and the rear of its back tapers into the waterline
(though this look is lost in ML52135681 as it appears the bird is riding
the crest of a small wave below it). The pale tip to the bill is seen
fairly well in ML52135631 and well in ML52135641. Though I think it's
difficult to assess its true shape from these photos, the bill...esp. near
the tip, just doesn't look narrow and sharp enough to my eye, especially
considering the distance to the subject and the quality of the photo. The
fact that I can discern and follow the contour of the bill tip with my
naked eye leads me to believe its more blunt-ended. Final point, I believe
the apparent thinness of the neck is strictly a result of posture/alertness
and I would caution against giving this feature a large degree of "weight"
during analysis.

Regards,

Jon Ruddy

Ottawa, Ontario

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Tony Leukering <
000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> All:
>
> I think that this bird is simply odd. To me, the shape of the bill is
> like that of Eared (EAGR), though the bird does seem to sport the white tip
> of Horned (HOGR). Also, EAGR usually shows (in front view) the head being
> the same width as the neck. The Anclote bird's head is slightly wider than
> the neck, but not as wide as typical of HOGR. Though the head seems to be
> molting, thus exhibiting an odd shape, the shape seems to be intermediate
> between the two species. The absolute thickness of the neck seems like the
> thin-necked look of EAGR.
>
> The above suggests a hybrid to me, and I have thought so since Bill posted
> the first checklist to this venue, though I've been hesitant to say such,
> as some already think that I am too hybrid-happy. However, Michael O'Brien
> chimed in privately to me with the same opinion. So, now that I'm in some
> fairly august company, I'll step out on that thin limb.
>
> Tony
>
> Tony Leukering
> Largo, FL
> www.aba.org/photoquiz/
> www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering
> http://cowyebird.blogspot.com
>
> > On Mar 24, 2017, at 09:34, Steve Hampton
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree and change my vote to a ratty Horned Grebe. The new photos show
> a
> > pale tip to the bill, an offset white check, and lower head and back
> > profile, and a bright red line to the eye (barely).
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Joseph Morlan
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
> >> are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic
> Eared
> >> Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:
> >>
> >> https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...
> >>
> >> One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape
> line
> >> between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
> >> this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
> >> and less distinct.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Good morning,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the
> >> Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was
> farther
> >> offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of
> the
> >> confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity
> may
> >> never be settled).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to
> occasionally
> >> common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been
> >> documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be
> an
> >> Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to all who have already commented.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >> --
> >> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Hampton
> > Davis, CA
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Eastern Ontario Birding
eontbird.ca

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 10:28 am
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
All:

I think that this bird is simply odd. To me, the shape of the bill is like that of Eared (EAGR), though the bird does seem to sport the white tip of Horned (HOGR). Also, EAGR usually shows (in front view) the head being the same width as the neck. The Anclote bird's head is slightly wider than the neck, but not as wide as typical of HOGR. Though the head seems to be molting, thus exhibiting an odd shape, the shape seems to be intermediate between the two species. The absolute thickness of the neck seems like the thin-necked look of EAGR.

The above suggests a hybrid to me, and I have thought so since Bill posted the first checklist to this venue, though I've been hesitant to say such, as some already think that I am too hybrid-happy. However, Michael O'Brien chimed in privately to me with the same opinion. So, now that I'm in some fairly august company, I'll step out on that thin limb.

Tony

Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
www.aba.org/photoquiz/
www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com

> On Mar 24, 2017, at 09:34, Steve Hampton wrote:
>
> I agree and change my vote to a ratty Horned Grebe. The new photos show a
> pale tip to the bill, an offset white check, and lower head and back
> profile, and a bright red line to the eye (barely).
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Joseph Morlan wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
>> are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic Eared
>> Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:
>>
>> https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...
>>
>> One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape line
>> between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
>> this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
>> and less distinct.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>>
>>> Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the
>> Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther
>> offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the
>> confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may
>> never be settled).
>>>
>>>
>>> My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>>
>>>
>>> As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally
>> common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been
>> documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an
>> Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who have already commented.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>> --
>> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 9:51 am
From: hdmcguinness AT gmail.com
 
A fast giss-based mark I use to look for Eared Grebe in the east requires
imagining the grebe head shape to be a triangle. In Horned Grebe the head
is an isosceles triangle with the apex being pointed horizontally through
the bill. In Eared Grebe, the head shape is an equilateral triangle with
one apex pointing vertically. The Florida bird shows, in almost all photos,
the head shape of a Horned Grebe IMHO. I don't know if others can see what
I am talking about, but this way of thinking about it has allowed me to
find several Eared Grebes in the east.

Hugh

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Steve Hampton
wrote:

> I agree and change my vote to a ratty Horned Grebe. The new photos show a
> pale tip to the bill, an offset white check, and lower head and back
> profile, and a bright red line to the eye (barely).
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Joseph Morlan wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
> > are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic Eared
> > Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:
> >
> > https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...
> >
> > One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape
> line
> > between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
> > this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
> > and less distinct.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Good morning,
> > >
> > >
> > >Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the
> > Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was
> farther
> > offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of
> the
> > confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity
> may
> > never be settled).
> > >
> > >
> > >My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
> > >
> > >
> > >http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > >
> > >
> > >As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to
> occasionally
> > common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been
> > documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an
> > Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks to all who have already commented.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >Bill
> > --
> > Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Hugh McGuinness
Washington, D.C.

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 9:36 am
From: stevechampton AT gmail.com
 
I agree and change my vote to a ratty Horned Grebe.  The new photos show a
pale tip to the bill, an offset white check, and lower head and back
profile, and a bright red line to the eye (barely).



On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Joseph Morlan wrote:

> Bill,
>
> I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
> are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic Eared
> Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:
>
> https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...
>
> One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape line
> between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
> this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
> and less distinct.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty
> wrote:
>
> >Good morning,
> >
> >
> >Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the
> Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther
> offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the
> confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may
> never be settled).
> >
> >
> >My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
> >
> >
> >http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >
> >
> >As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally
> common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been
> documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an
> Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
> >
> >
> >Thanks to all who have already commented.
> >
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >
> >Bill
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 8:08 am
From: jmorlan AT gmail.com
 
Bill,

I believe the new photos indicate Horned Grebe. Some helpful characters
are essayed by Jehl in Western Birds "Additional Notes on Leucistic Eared
Grebes at Mono Lake" (Western Birds 38:289-292, 2007) available at:

https://sora.unm.edu/node/1372...

One feature not previously mentioned is the relatively broad red gape line
between the eye and the bill evident in the new photos. In Eared Grebe,
this line is normally dark, much narrower, shorter, more strongly angled
and less distinct.




On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:42 +0000, Bill Pranty
wrote:

>Good morning,
>
>
>Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may never be settled).
>
>
>My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:
>
>
>http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
>
>As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.
>
>
>Thanks to all who have already commented.
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>
>Bill
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Response Protocol?
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 6:12 am
From: wgpu AT hotmail.com
 
A curiosity.


On this forum, is there an understood protocol about responding to folks' ID requests "on list" vs. "off list"?


I noticed in Bill Pranty's latest eBird checklist (today) re. the Pasco County (FL) grebe, that his 7/7 tally is based on feedback he received on the list and, it appears, privately. I'm wondering if responders could be encouraged to respond "on list" so that their, likely helpful, input could be considered by everyone? Perhaps though, there is some consideration I'm missing.


Thanks.


Bates Estabrooks

Anderson County, Tennessee

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida, Part II
Date: Fri Mar 24 2017 2:27 am
From: billpranty AT hotmail.com
 
Good morning,


Yesterday I revisited Anclote River Park and again photographed the Horned/Eared grebe. The lighting was much better but the grebe was farther offshore. Nonetheless, I hope that the new images will clarify some of the confusion regarding the grebe's ID (although I accept that its identity may never be settled).


My new eBIrd checklist with 10 new images is here:


http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...


As an FYI, while Horned Grebe is a regular, fairly common to occasionally common migrant and winter resident locally, eared Grebe has never been documented via photographic proof. So, if this grebe is accepted to be an Eared Grebe, then we will have a new bird for Pasco County.


Thanks to all who have already commented.



Best regards,


Bill

--

Bill Pranty

Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Wed Mar 22 2017 18:49 pm
From: accipitriformes AT gmail.com
 
Hi there,

It's very difficult to critically assess this bird given the quality of the
photos, but this in fact provides an important consideration: I'd expect
the tip of the bill to be sharper and finer on a similarly photographed
Eared Grebe. In photo ML51385511, the bill is not particularly
sharp-tipped, rather it is blunt-tipped. Every photo I see, I see the same
detail; taking into account the distance from the subject and the quality
of the photo...the bill appears to be too thick and blunt-tipped for Eared.
In photo ML51385481, I believe the contrasting pale tip to the bill may be
showing through naturally (vs. an artifact of lighting); its position on
the bill and its apparent color "fit the bill", in my opinion. In photo
ML51385521, it is very difficult to erase the overall impression of Eared
here, but I believe it's impression is due postural "shape-shifting."

A tentative vote for Horned Grebe.

Regards,

Jon Ruddy
Ottawa, Ontario
eontbird.ca

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Bill Pranty
wrote:

> Good evening,
>
>
> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has
> generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and
> to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions
> (lighting/distance).
>
>
> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
>
> Comments requested.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> billpranty@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Eastern Ontario Birding
eontbird.ca

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Wed Mar 22 2017 16:46 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
I think the quality of the photos combined with the worn plumage state make it difficult to be sure about this bird. While I agree that a pale bill tip is a good feature for Horned Grebe, I only see it in some of the pictures and with so-so photos, it might be an artifact. The thin-necked appearance could be a result of worn feathering. Quite a few Horned Grebes can show a bill shape like this. From what I can see of the face pattern, it looks better for Horned. Overall, I think I lean towards Horned, but wouldn't wager a lot of money on it.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Wayne Hoffman
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 2:03 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida

Hi -

I can see why this bird is causing confusion. I would like to point out another character I find often useful, which is the appearance of the bird's rear end. Horned Grebes usually show a continuous curve to the back, ending with the wingtips near the waterline at the rear, and everything in the back tapering somewhat smoothly to one terminal point. Eared Grebes often show the curve of the back rising to a high point 2 cm or so forward of the stern, and then a fluffy, steeply-sloped back end down to a very rounded stern.

I think this difference is a consequence of Eared Grebes having shorter wings relative to body length, such that the folded wings end short of the upper-tail coverts. The latter, not compressed under the folded wings, can fluff up and give a very different shape to the back end.

These photos are not ideal for judging this character, but I get a sense of longer wings from them, thus suggesting Horned.

Wayne
On 3/21/2017 8:52:59 PM, Jeff Gilligan wrote:
Dave

Here is a link to a winter Eared Grebe with a pale, whitish bill: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/...

Jeff


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> In all photos the bill tip
> appears to be pale and whitish, which
> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Wed Mar 22 2017 16:03 pm
From: whoffman AT peak.org
 
Hi -

I can see why this bird is causing confusion. I would like to point out another character I find often useful, which is the appearance of the bird's rear end. Horned Grebes usually show a continuous curve to the back, ending with the wingtips near the waterline at the rear, and everything in the back tapering somewhat smoothly to one terminal point. Eared Grebes often show the curve of the back rising to a high point 2 cm or so forward of the stern, and then a fluffy, steeply-sloped back end down to a very rounded stern.

I think this difference is a consequence of Eared Grebes having shorter wings relative to body length, such that the folded wings end short of the upper-tail coverts. The latter, not compressed under the folded wings, can fluff up and give a very different shape to the back end.

These photos are not ideal for judging this character, but I get a sense of longer wings from them, thus suggesting Horned.

Wayne
On 3/21/2017 8:52:59 PM, Jeff Gilligan wrote:
Dave

Here is a link to a winter Eared Grebe with a pale, whitish bill: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/...

Jeff


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> In all photos the bill tip
> appears to be pale and whitish, which
> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Wed Mar 22 2017 15:01 pm
From: karlson3 AT comcast.net
 
All: it is never a good idea to place all your eggs in one basket based on a single field mark, such as a pale bill tip, when so many other features are visible to help with this ID. The bill shape of this bird is perfect Eared Grebe, with its deeper base and very slender, pointed bill that narrows dramatically from the middle to a very pointed tip. Horned Grebe has a fairly thick bill from base to tip, with the tip being somewhat blunt. They also show a pale tip to the bill in the handful of my photos that I looked at, including this comparison photo that I used in my book Birding by Impression, which compares nonbreeding Horned, Eared and Red-necked Grebes. You can clearly see the pale tip on the Horned Grebe in this image, which is much better lit that the Bill's photos. Link: http://kevinkarlsonphotography...

Another feature for Eared Grebe is the proportionally long, slender neck compared to Horned Grebe's fairly short, thick neck, which only appears thin when they extend it fully. The head is also quite small compared to the larger, blocky, flat-topped head of Horned Grebe, which shows no peak to the crown. Another point for Eared is the way that they ride on top of the water with their rear end elevated as if it was pumped up with air. Only a few photos show the water calm enough to see this feature, but Horned Grebe rides in the water like a partially submerged submarine. The flanks on Horned Grebe when it is floating are somewhat proportionally visible from front to back as well, with Eared Grebe showing more of the rear flank above the water line. I also attached a link to a breeding Horned Grebe on my website that also shows a pale bill tip. This features is not a separative field mark for these two species. http://kevinkarlsonphotography...
+Churchill_+June.jpg.html


Kevin Karlson

>
> On March 22, 2017 at 12:29 AM Jason Rogers wrote:
>
> Perhaps it's just my screen, but with the harsh light, glare, and background in these photos, I'm not sure how anyone is discerning the colour of the bill let alone the colour of the tip.
>
> Jason Rogers
>
> Calgary, AB
>
> ________________________________
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jeff Gilligan
> Sent: March 22, 2017 4:18 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
>
> I am back-tracking. Looking at the photos again I can see the bill tip is pale even in the photos where the rest of the bill is otherwise dark.
>
> Jeff gilligan. (Oregon)
>
> > >
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
> >
> > In all photos the bill tip
> > appears to be pale and whitish, which
> > is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
> >
> > Dave Irons
> > Portland, Oregon
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > > >
> > > On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
> > >
> > > Good evening,
> > >
> > > A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
> > >
> > > My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
> > >
> > > http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> > >
> > > Comments requested.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Best regards.
> > >
> > > Bill Pranty
> > >
> > > Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
> > >
> > > billpranty@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> > >
> > > > >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > >
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Wed Mar 22 2017 1:10 am
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
It's not really a color Jason. The tip of a Horned Grebe's bill is slightly translucent and ivory-colored. In this set of photos the tip looks consistently glared out, which is typical when you have backlit photos of Horned Grebes. I would recommend looking at a bunch of photos of Horned Grebes paying particular attention to the very tip of the bill. 

I learned this field mark several years ago from a mystery bird quiz that Joe Morlan used to do. Ever since then I have studied Horned and Eared Grebes. I've yet to find a Horned Grebe that lacked this distinctive whitish tip and I have never seen an Eared Grebe that showed a conspicuous pale tip to the bill.

I would add that the last image (with the bird facing the camera) strikes me as showing a pretty typical head shape and pattern for Horned Grebe.

Dave Irons

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 9:31 PM, Jason Rogers wrote:
>
> Perhaps it's just my screen, but with the harsh light, glare, and background in these photos, I'm not sure how anyone is discerning the colour of the bill let alone the colour of the tip.
>
>
> Jason Rogers
>
> Calgary, AB
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jeff Gilligan
> Sent: March 22, 2017 4:18 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
>
> I am back-tracking. Looking at the photos again I can see the bill tip is pale even in the photos where the rest of the bill is otherwise dark.
>
> Jeff gilligan. (Oregon)
>
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>>
>> In all photos the bill tip
>> appears to be pale and whitish, which
>> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>>
>> Dave Irons
>> Portland, Oregon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>>
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>>
>>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>>
>>>
>>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments requested.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Pranty
>>>
>>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>>
>>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 23:30 pm
From: hawkowl AT hotmail.com
 
Perhaps it's just my screen, but with the harsh light, glare, and background in these photos, I'm not sure how anyone is discerning the colour of the bill let alone the colour of the tip.


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB



________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Jeff Gilligan
Sent: March 22, 2017 4:18 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida

I am back-tracking. Looking at the photos again I can see the bill tip is pale even in the photos where the rest of the bill is otherwise dark.

Jeff gilligan. (Oregon)


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> In all photos the bill tip
> appears to be pale and whitish, which
> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 23:18 pm
From: jeffgilligan10 AT gmail.com
 
I am back-tracking.  Looking at the photos again I can see the bill tip is pale even in the photos where the rest of the bill is otherwise dark.  

Jeff gilligan. (Oregon)


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> In all photos the bill tip
> appears to be pale and whitish, which
> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 22:52 pm
From: jeffgilligan10 AT gmail.com
 
Dave

Here is a link to a winter Eared Grebe with a pale, whitish bill: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/...

Jeff


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:30 PM, David Irons wrote:
>
> In all photos the bill tip
> appears to be pale and whitish, which
> is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 22:30 pm
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
In all photos the bill tip
appears to be pale and whitish, which
is to my understanding diagnostic for Horned Grebe. My extensive field experience with Eared and Horned Grebes has convinced me that this is a highly reliable fieldmark.

Dave Irons
Portland, Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>
> Good evening,
>
>
> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).
>
>
> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
>
> Comments requested.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> billpranty@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 22:25 pm
From: kevinmclaughlin05 AT gmail.com
 
This grebe is tough to judge in terms of overall structure due to molt
giving it a rough aspect and creating a somewhat misleading impression of
true head and body shape.The lighting was not the best either. One feature
however is quite visible in seven or eight of the photos and this is the
contrastingly pale tip to the bill. This is a clear Horned Grebe character
and I have no recollection of seeing Eared Grebe with this.

Kevin McLaughlin
Hamilton, Ontario.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Jeff Gilligan
wrote:

> I agree.
> Jeff Gilligan (Oregon)
>
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:33 PM, Steve Hampton
> wrote:
> >
> > The bill shape, skinny neck, and other posture aspects strongly suggest
> > Eared Grebe to me.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty
> wrote:
> >
> >> Good evening,
> >>
> >>
> >> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has
> >> generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting
> and
> >> to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions
> >> (lighting/distance).
> >>
> >>
> >> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
> >>
> >>
> >> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >>
> >>
> >> Comments requested.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bill Pranty
> >>
> >> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
> >>
> >> billpranty@hotmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Hampton
> > Davis, CA
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 22:06 pm
From: jeffgilligan10 AT gmail.com
 
I agree.  
Jeff Gilligan (Oregon)

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:33 PM, Steve Hampton wrote:
>
> The bill shape, skinny neck, and other posture aspects strongly suggest
> Eared Grebe to me.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:
>
>> Good evening,
>>
>>
>> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has
>> generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and
>> to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions
>> (lighting/distance).
>>
>>
>> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>>
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>>
>> Comments requested.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>> Bill Pranty
>>
>> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>>
>> billpranty@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 22:03 pm
From: hawkowl AT hotmail.com
 
I agree - Eared.


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Steve Hampton
Sent: March 22, 2017 2:33 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida

The bill shape, skinny neck, and other posture aspects strongly suggest
Eared Grebe to me.



On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:

> Good evening,
>
>
> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has
> generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and
> to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions
> (lighting/distance).
>
>
> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
>
> Comments requested.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> billpranty@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 21:36 pm
From: stevechampton AT gmail.com
 
The bill shape, skinny neck, and other posture aspects strongly suggest
Eared Grebe to me.



On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Bill Pranty wrote:

> Good evening,
>
>
> A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has
> generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and
> to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions
> (lighting/distance).
>
>
> My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:
>
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
>
> Comments requested.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> Bill Pranty
>
> Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida
>
> billpranty@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Comments requested on a Podiceps grebe in Florida
Date: Tue Mar 21 2017 21:26 pm
From: billpranty AT hotmail.com
 
Good evening,


A _Podiceps_ grebe in Pasco County, Florida (central Gulf coast) has generated debate locally as to its identification. The grebe is molting and to date has not been photographed under ideal conditions (lighting/distance).


My "best" 10 photographs are uploaded to my eBird checklist:


http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...


Comments requested.


Thank you.



Best regards.


Bill Pranty

Bayonet Point (Pasco County), Florida

billpranty@hotmail.com




Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario
Date: Fri Mar 10 2017 17:59 pm
From: Shaibal.Mitra AT csi.cuny.edu
 
I agree with Tony completely.

Although I don't have a lot of experience with White-winged Junco, I have extensive experience with Slate-colored Juncos, including close study of multiple individuals with white wingbars. Birds of this appearance that I've banded in the coastal northeastern USA have resembled SCJU in the other plumage features mentioned by Tony, and in terms of measurements and tail pattern. In other words, SCJU can look like this.

Best,
Shai
________________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIER.S Frontiers of Field Identification [BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] on behalf of Tony Leukering [000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.KSU.EDU]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 5:57 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario

Mike et al.:


Having extensive experience with White-winged Junco (WWJU) on the winter grounds (and a little bit on breeding grounds), I feel quite comfortable in identifying the Ontario junco as an aberrant Slate-colored (SCJU). The bill is small, the color of the gray plumage is too dark, and the lores do not contrast strongly enough (partly because the basic color of the bird is too dark). The observer does not mention any size difference -- and that difference is typically obvious to me in the field, nor does the observer note any difference in call note. As the three pictures provided do not show a spread tail, it is impossible to determine the extent of white in the tail. Additionally, if one is familiar with SCJUs (and particularly if such are present for direct comparison), the large amount of white visible in the tail when a WWJU leaves the ground is strikingly obvious; it is not something that one has to think about.


I hope that this helps.


Enjoy,


Tony


Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burrell
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Fri, Mar 10, 2017 4:33 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario

Hi there,

The Ontario Bird Records Committee received this report of a Dark-eyed
"white-winged" Junco from last fall in northwestern Ontario. The OBRC has
never accepted a report of this subspecies in the province.

The documentation for this record is found at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0c8...

Would you be willing to provide your opinion on the bird based on your
experience with this subspecies? The OBRC is particularly interested in how
to separate that subspecies from slate-colored birds with white wing bars.

If you have any other suggestions for people with experience with this
subspecies, please let me know or pass this message along to them.

Thanks for your time,

Mike Burrell
OBRC Secretary
OBRCSecretary@gmail.com

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario
Date: Fri Mar 10 2017 16:59 pm
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Mike et al.:


Having extensive experience with White-winged Junco (WWJU) on the winter grounds (and a little bit on breeding grounds), I feel quite comfortable in identifying the Ontario junco as an aberrant Slate-colored (SCJU). The bill is small, the color of the gray plumage is too dark, and the lores do not contrast strongly enough (partly because the basic color of the bird is too dark). The observer does not mention any size difference -- and that difference is typically obvious to me in the field, nor does the observer note any difference in call note. As the three pictures provided do not show a spread tail, it is impossible to determine the extent of white in the tail. Additionally, if one is familiar with SCJUs (and particularly if such are present for direct comparison), the large amount of white visible in the tail when a WWJU leaves the ground is strikingly obvious; it is not something that one has to think about.


I hope that this helps.


Enjoy,


Tony


Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burrell
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Fri, Mar 10, 2017 4:33 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario

Hi there,

The Ontario Bird Records Committee received this report of a Dark-eyed
"white-winged" Junco from last fall in northwestern Ontario. The OBRC has
never accepted a report of this subspecies in the province.

The documentation for this record is found at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0c8...

Would you be willing to provide your opinion on the bird based on your
experience with this subspecies? The OBRC is particularly interested in how
to separate that subspecies from slate-colored birds with white wing bars.

If you have any other suggestions for people with experience with this
subspecies, please let me know or pass this message along to them.

Thanks for your time,

Mike Burrell
OBRC Secretary
OBRCSecretary@gmail.com

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: seeking input on a "white-winged" junco from Ontario
Date: Fri Mar 10 2017 15:33 pm
From: mike.burrell.on AT gmail.com
 
Hi there,

The Ontario Bird Records Committee received this report of a Dark-eyed
"white-winged" Junco from last fall in northwestern Ontario. The OBRC has
never accepted a report of this subspecies in the province.

The documentation for this record is found at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0c8...

Would you be willing to provide your opinion on the bird based on your
experience with this subspecies? The OBRC is particularly interested in how
to separate that subspecies from slate-colored birds with white wing bars.

If you have any other suggestions for people with experience with this
subspecies, please let me know or pass this message along to them.

Thanks for your time,

Mike Burrell
OBRC Secretary
OBRCSecretary@gmail.com

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Faeder male Ruff ID
Date: Mon Mar 6 2017 11:59 am
From: nbonomo AT gmail.com
 
Hi all, is anyone aware of a reliable way to distinguish "faeder" male
Ruffs from Reeves in the field in alternate plumage?

Thanks,
Nick


Nick Bonomo
Wallingford, CT
www.shorebirder.com

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Fri Mar 3 2017 14:13 pm
From: blakemathys AT hotmail.com
 
This conversation reminded me of a gull from 2006 that some friends and I saw at Lake Erie, Ohio, USA. I've always been curious about leg color implications of this bird:


http://blakemathys.com/LBBG.ht...


Thank you for any comments,


Blake Mathys

------------------------------------
http://blakemathys.com/
------------------------------------



Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Fri Mar 3 2017 13:43 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
LBBG is no longer a review species in CA since they have increased so much. The SE corner of the state regularly has a few wintering each year now and that is just 200 miles away. There are many coastal records as well, dating back a couple of decades in some cases. This happens to be the first photographed in Santa Barbara County, which is why I sought additional opinion.

I had a un-photographed bird at the same location last year that had slight more black on the bill (in the same area) and suspect this is the same bird. Both years I saw the bird in flight and it appeared to be an adult.

From: The HH75 [mailto:hhussey3@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 11:35 AM
To: Lethaby, Nick
Cc: BIRDWG01@listserv.ksu.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color

Hi Nick,
I would echo what Peter has said insomuch as the leg colour in itself doesn't seem to pose too much of a problem for a (presumed) pure Lesser Black-backed Gull, at least going by how it looks on my monitor anyway. Compared to those of the Western Gulls, the legs have a markedly yellow tone to them. Given the slight amount of black on the bill, particularly near the gonydeal spot, it is possible that this bird isn't a full adult, either, though I'd not like to say for sure without spread wing images to check the primary coverts and suchlike.
I know very little about birds such as 'Taimyr Gull', but graellsii Lesser Black-backed Gull is a common bird here. I see nothing too unusual about this bird such that it would stand out among the local birds, given that variation exists within the taxon anyway. It does seem too pale above for an intermedius type (going by the last image especially), and certainly looks too pale for fuscus. I'd not like to generalise about heuglini, especially as much of what is published about that taxon is based on birds on the wintering grounds and, without rings, how can one be sure of the provenance of any one individual bird? Nevertheless, assuming the late-moulting birds with similar Kodak grey scale tones to graellsii that occur in the Middle East, east Africa etc are truly heuglini, I'd expect one of these to have streaking concentrated more towards the nape, perhaps to have longer legs and maybe to still be in active primary moult, though, that said, by late February perhaps heuglini could have completed their moult. I'd appreciate feedback from those who know these birds better.
Any hybrid combination involving LBBG as one parent should be paler above than the subject bird, I would imagine, save for the (remote?) possibility of GBBG x LBBG, which this bird doesn't suggest. But just because it would not stand out among the hordes of graellsii here doesn't mean it has to be one, of course...have there been many proven records of graellsii on the US west coast? Regards,
Harry

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
All,

I found an apparent adult Lesser Black-backed Gull on the California coast today. The leg color was rather putty-colored and much less bright than I would expect in an adult. I wanted to get some opinions from those who see a lot of Lesser Black-backed Gulls as to whether the leg color is OK or whether hybrids or "Taimyr Gull" should be considered. Photos are in the ebird checklist at: View this checklist online at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

Thanks,

Nick Lethaby
Office: 805 562 5106
Mobile: 805 284 6200
Email: nlethaby@ti.com


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Fri Mar 3 2017 13:35 pm
From: hhussey3 AT gmail.com
 
Hi Nick,
I would echo what Peter has said insomuch as the leg colour in itself
doesn't seem to pose too much of a problem for a (presumed) pure Lesser
Black-backed Gull, at least going by how it looks on my monitor anyway.
Compared to those of the Western Gulls, the legs have a markedly yellow
tone to them. Given the slight amount of black on the bill, particularly
near the gonydeal spot, it is possible that this bird isn't a full adult,
either, though I'd not like to say for sure without spread wing images to
check the primary coverts and suchlike.
I know very little about birds such as 'Taimyr Gull', but graellsii
Lesser Black-backed Gull is a common bird here. I see nothing too unusual
about this bird such that it would stand out among the local birds, given
that variation exists within the taxon anyway. It does seem too pale above
for an intermedius type (going by the last image especially), and certainly
looks too pale for fuscus. I'd not like to generalise about heuglini,
especially as much of what is published about that taxon is based on birds
on the wintering grounds and, without rings, how can one be sure of the
provenance of any one individual bird? Nevertheless, assuming the
late-moulting birds with similar Kodak grey scale tones to graellsii that
occur in the Middle East, east Africa etc are truly heuglini, I'd expect
one of these to have streaking concentrated more towards the nape, perhaps
to have longer legs and maybe to still be in active primary moult, though,
that said, by late February perhaps heuglini could have completed their
moult. I'd appreciate feedback from those who know these birds better.
Any hybrid combination involving LBBG as one parent should be paler
above than the subject bird, I would imagine, save for the (remote?)
possibility of GBBG x LBBG, which this bird doesn't suggest. But just
because it would not stand out among the hordes of graellsii here doesn't
mean it has to be one, of course...have there been many proven records of
graellsii on the US west coast?
Regards,
Harry

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

> All,
>
> I found an apparent adult Lesser Black-backed Gull on the California coast
> today. The leg color was rather putty-colored and much less bright than I
> would expect in an adult. I wanted to get some opinions from those who see
> a lot of Lesser Black-backed Gulls as to whether the leg color is OK or
> whether hybrids or "Taimyr Gull" should be considered. Photos are in the
> ebird checklist at: View this checklist online at
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Fri Mar 3 2017 10:16 am
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
The mantle color was not dramatically different to Western Gulls in the vicinity. I didn't have time to closely study this because the bird flew off fairly quickly. This would definitely put it as a graellsii as neither Western subspecies is all that dark.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Wilkinson [mailto:pjw42@waitrose.com]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 7:12 AM
To: Lethaby, Nick; BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color

I'm no gull expert. The Lesser Black-backs I see here are mostly graellsii with some intermedius. I did, however, band back in the '90s a graellsii that a friend and I caught. I confidently aged it (if I recall correctly) as a 4th winter (using our terminology) on the basis that it did not yet have yellow legs (if anything they were slightly greyer than the bird in Nick's photos) although the plumage looked adult. It was remarkably site faithful in winter to my friend's garden and turned up reliably every winter for the next six years or so (we didn't catch it again, but read the ring number through a telescope).
The legs never did go yellow! Wish we had found out where it went in summer.

I have a vague recollection that I may have posted about this a long time ago, but cannot find anything. 

Peter
Herts, England

PS. This is purely about leg colour. I doubt I can contribute much otherwise to this bird except to say it looks to me to be much too dark on the mantle to be graellsii.

On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 22:53 +0000, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> All,
>
> I found an apparent adult Lesser Black-backed Gull on the California
> coast today. The leg color was rather putty-colored and much less
> bright than I would expect in an adult. I wanted to get some opinions
> from those who see a lot of Lesser Black-backed Gulls as to whether
> the leg color is OK or whether hybrids or "Taimyr Gull" should be
> considered. Photos are in the ebird checklist at: View this checklist
> online at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Fri Mar 3 2017 9:11 am
From: pjw42 AT waitrose.com
 
I'm no gull expert. The Lesser Black-backs I see here are mostly
graellsii with some intermedius. I did, however, band back in the '90s
a graellsii that a friend and I caught. I confidently aged it (if I
recall correctly) as a 4th winter (using our terminology) on the basis
that it did not yet have yellow legs (if anything they were slightly
greyer than the bird in Nick's photos) although the plumage looked
adult. It was remarkably site faithful in winter to my friend's garden
and turned up reliably every winter for the next six years or so (we
didn't catch it again, but read the ring number through a telescope).
The legs never did go yellow! Wish we had found out where it went in
summer.

I have a vague recollection that I may have posted about this a long
time ago, but cannot find anything. 

Peter
Herts, England

PS. This is purely about leg colour. I doubt I can contribute much
otherwise to this bird except to say it looks to me to be much too dark
on the mantle to be graellsii.

On Sun, 2017-02-26 at 22:53 +0000, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
> All,
>
> I found an apparent adult Lesser Black-backed Gull on the California
> coast today. The leg color was rather putty-colored and much less
> bright than I would expect in an adult. I wanted to get some opinions
> from those who see a lot of Lesser Black-backed Gulls as to whether
> the leg color is OK or whether hybrids or "Taimyr Gull" should be
> considered. Photos are in the ebird checklist at: View this checklist
> online at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: another iNaturalist Gull query
Date: Wed Mar 1 2017 15:17 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Looks like a pure Ring-billed to me, I don't see the California Gull elements. 
Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 1:08 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] another iNaturalist Gull query

This bird was originally ID'd as a California Gull which it is clearly not. I believe it's a hybrid of some sort, possibly CAxRB. It's been kinda slow here on ID frontiers. Any takers on a gull discussion?

http://www.inaturalist.org/obs...


--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
That question...
http://www.surfbirds.com/commu...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: another iNaturalist Gull query
Date: Wed Mar 1 2017 15:12 pm
From: amarayyash AT gmail.com
 
Looks like a standard 2nd cycle Ring-billed Gull.


Amar Ayyash


On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Mike Patterson wrote:

> This bird was originally ID'd as a California Gull which it is
> clearly not. I believe it's a hybrid of some sort, possibly
> CAxRB. It's been kinda slow here on ID frontiers. Any takers
> on a gull discussion?
>
> http://www.inaturalist.org/obs...
>
>
> --
> Mike Patterson
> Astoria, OR
> That question...
> http://www.surfbirds.com/commu...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: another iNaturalist Gull query
Date: Wed Mar 1 2017 15:08 pm
From: celata AT pacifier.com
 
This bird was originally ID'd as a California Gull which it is
clearly not. I believe it's a hybrid of some sort, possibly
CAxRB. It's been kinda slow here on ID frontiers. Any takers
on a gull discussion?

http://www.inaturalist.org/obs...


--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
That question...
http://www.surfbirds.com/commu...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes
Date: Mon Feb 27 2017 9:52 am
From: bbomkamp AT gmail.com
 
Apologies for flooding your inboxes, but to clarify the call recorded from
the Oswego grebe was similar to a WESTERN Grebe, not Clark's, as was
probably evident from the tone of the message and the calls. Apologies for
any confusion.

The same questions still apply.

Thanks

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Brent Bomkamp wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As I'm sure some are aware an apparent Clark's Grebe was discovered on
> Wednesday the 22nd in Oswego, NY, representing the first state record of
> the species. Although all physical marks (bill color, neck dorsal stripe,
> back and flank coloration, and facial patterning) are strongly indicative
> of Clark's, the bird has been recorded making a call typical of Clark's
> Grebe. Conditions on the lake and the distance of the bird make recording
> difficult, but recordings made by Greg Dashnau and Brad Walker, along with
> photos and descriptions, can be accessed below:
>
> https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
> https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
>
> It is worth noting that in at least one of the recordings the bird was
> induced to call using playback of Western Grebe.
>
> Recent discussion among New York birders has suggested that vocalizations
> in the genus are not necessarily a reliable indicator of either species.
> However, published sources such as Nuechterlein and Buitron 1998 (accessed
> here: beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/3/313.full.pdf) suggest that
> call types are determined genetically and are vital for the reproductive
> isolation
> of the two species. This would seem to call into question the prior
> notion.
>
> I thought I would pose this question to observers familiar with the genus:
> Are vocalizations indeed not a reliable indicator as to species, especially
> in the context of playback? Additionally, and more straightforward, would
> this individual provide you with concerns of hybridization when all factors
> are taken into account?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Brent Bomkamp
> Eatons Neck, NY
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes
Date: Mon Feb 27 2017 9:48 am
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi Brent:


The tone of your message suggests the possibility that you intended "Western Grebe" in the third mention of a grebe species in the first paragraph. Is that so?


Tony



Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bomkamp
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2017 10:02 am
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes

Hi all,

As I'm sure some are aware an apparent Clark's Grebe was discovered on
Wednesday the 22nd in Oswego, NY, representing the first state record of
the species. Although all physical marks (bill color, neck dorsal stripe,
back and flank coloration, and facial patterning) are strongly indicative
of Clark's, the bird has been recorded making a call typical of Clark's
Grebe. Conditions on the lake and the distance of the bird make recording
difficult, but recordings made by Greg Dashnau and Brad Walker, along with
photos and descriptions, can be accessed below:

https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...

It is worth noting that in at least one of the recordings the bird was
induced to call using playback of Western Grebe.

Recent discussion among New York birders has suggested that vocalizations
in the genus are not necessarily a reliable indicator of either species.
However, published sources such as Nuechterlein and Buitron 1998 (accessed
here: beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/3/313.full.pdf) suggest that call
types are determined genetically and are vital for the reproductive
isolation
of the two species. This would seem to call into question the prior notion.

I thought I would pose this question to observers familiar with the genus:
Are vocalizations indeed not a reliable indicator as to species, especially
in the context of playback? Additionally, and more straightforward, would
this individual provide you with concerns of hybridization when all factors
are taken into account?

Thanks!

Brent Bomkamp
Eatons Neck, NY

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Vocalizations in Aechmophorus Grebes
Date: Mon Feb 27 2017 9:02 am
From: bbomkamp AT gmail.com
 
Hi all,

As I'm sure some are aware an apparent Clark's Grebe was discovered on
Wednesday the 22nd in Oswego, NY, representing the first state record of
the species. Although all physical marks (bill color, neck dorsal stripe,
back and flank coloration, and facial patterning) are strongly indicative
of Clark's, the bird has been recorded making a call typical of Clark's
Grebe. Conditions on the lake and the distance of the bird make recording
difficult, but recordings made by Greg Dashnau and Brad Walker, along with
photos and descriptions, can be accessed below:

https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...

It is worth noting that in at least one of the recordings the bird was
induced to call using playback of Western Grebe.

Recent discussion among New York birders has suggested that vocalizations
in the genus are not necessarily a reliable indicator of either species.
However, published sources such as Nuechterlein and Buitron 1998 (accessed
here: beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/3/313.full.pdf) suggest that call
types are determined genetically and are vital for the reproductive
isolation
of the two species. This would seem to call into question the prior notion.

I thought I would pose this question to observers familiar with the genus:
Are vocalizations indeed not a reliable indicator as to species, especially
in the context of playback? Additionally, and more straightforward, would
this individual provide you with concerns of hybridization when all factors
are taken into account?

Thanks!

Brent Bomkamp
Eatons Neck, NY

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sun Feb 26 2017 17:26 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
Based on my experience in Santa Barbara County in coastal S. California, I would say many of the birds we claim as Red-naped have the more extensive red shown by your problem birds. A further problem IMO is female RB Sapsuckers of the southern race, which seem to show extensive white in the face (assuming these are not hybrids too). I don't have a clear idea of the intra-specific variation shown by the these 'species'. It's quite likely that a highish % of coastal slope RN Sapsuckers in CA, may in fact be hybrids. I know I tend to just slap a name on the bird rather than have to call half the ones I see a hybrid and suspect quite a few others are similarly lax. I don't really regard this as a good split to be honest.


-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Leukering
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 7:14 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance

Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mlodinow
To: greatgrayowl ; ebird-regional-editors
Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance


Greetings All


Okay, let me see if my sleepy brain is up to an intelligent conversation about this.


The three birds from south of Colorado look pretty much within the RNSA group to me.
I can not see most of the individuals in the list of 6 (towards bottom of Tony's note) well enough to comment, but ML 40202531 looks somewhat like Bruce's bird, and if seen in WA, most observers would consider this a hybrid w/o a second thought.


I think the keys are within Bruce's comments:
In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red coloring beside and within the black breast band.


The Tehama bird, really, has more red on the head above the white "malar" stripe than black. To me, that would signify the presence of RBSA genes. Without genes, I guess we will never know. But anything more than a stray red feather in the "cheek" and "obvious" red within and below the black breast band are indications of RBSA heritage.


My experience from 20 years in WA is such:
In e. WA, RNSAs are common breeders but are quite scarce in winter (anywhere in state). RBSAs are common year-round in w. WA and are scarce in winter e. of the Cascades.


In WA, hybrid-like birds are virtually non-existent e. of the Cascades during breeding season, but they do occur occasionally during winter, presumably from the nearby narrow hybrid zone. Notably, more such presumed hybrids are found near the Cascades than farther east. Additionally, apparently pure RN Sapsuckers are rare in w. WA lowlands during migration and winter and are outnumbered by apparent mutts (which are scarce), some of which look much like the Tehama bird. I think this provides evidence for such birds being hybrids, not RNSA variants.


As with all species-pairs that have a true hybrid-zone (vs sporadic hybridization), where to draw the line, phenotypically, between species A vs B is very difficult as discerning variation within either species from hybrid influence may be impossible.


Best Wishes
Steve Mlodinow






-----Original Message-----
From: 'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors
To: birdwg01 ; ebird-regional-editors
Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2017 3:09 pm
Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance


Hi all:


First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.


I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:


http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...


My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).


In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.


Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...




Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.


Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is



Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull leg color
Date: Sun Feb 26 2017 16:53 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
All,

I found an apparent adult Lesser Black-backed Gull on the California coast today. The leg color was rather putty-colored and much less bright than I would expect in an adult. I wanted to get some opinions from those who see a lot of Lesser Black-backed Gulls as to whether the leg color is OK or whether hybrids or "Taimyr Gull" should be considered. Photos are in the ebird checklist at: View this checklist online at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

Thanks,

Nick Lethaby
Office: 805 562 5106
Mobile: 805 284 6200
Email: nlethaby@ti.com


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sun Feb 26 2017 9:14 am
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mlodinow
To: greatgrayowl ; ebird-regional-editors
Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance


Greetings All


Okay, let me see if my sleepy brain is up to an intelligent conversation about this.


The three birds from south of Colorado look pretty much within the RNSA group to me.
I can not see most of the individuals in the list of 6 (towards bottom of Tony's note) well enough to comment, but ML 40202531 looks somewhat like Bruce's bird, and if seen in WA, most observers would consider this a hybrid w/o a second thought.


I think the keys are within Bruce's comments:
In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red coloring beside and within the black breast band.


The Tehama bird, really, has more red on the head above the white "malar" stripe than black. To me, that would signify the presence of RBSA genes. Without genes, I guess we will never know. But anything more than a stray red feather in the "cheek" and "obvious" red within and below the black breast band are indications of RBSA heritage.


My experience from 20 years in WA is such:
In e. WA, RNSAs are common breeders but are quite scarce in winter (anywhere in state). RBSAs are common year-round in w. WA and are scarce in winter e. of the Cascades.


In WA, hybrid-like birds are virtually non-existent e. of the Cascades during breeding season, but they do occur occasionally during winter, presumably from the nearby narrow hybrid zone. Notably, more such presumed hybrids are found near the Cascades than farther east. Additionally, apparently pure RN Sapsuckers are rare in w. WA lowlands during migration and winter and are outnumbered by apparent mutts (which are scarce), some of which look much like the Tehama bird. I think this provides evidence for such birds being hybrids, not RNSA variants.


As with all species-pairs that have a true hybrid-zone (vs sporadic hybridization), where to draw the line, phenotypically, between species A vs B is very difficult as discerning variation within either species from hybrid influence may be impossible.


Best Wishes
Steve Mlodinow






-----Original Message-----
From: 'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors
To: birdwg01 ; ebird-regional-editors
Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2017 3:09 pm
Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance


Hi all:


First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.


I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:


http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...


My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).


In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.


Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...




Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.


Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sun Feb 26 2017 8:34 am
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Jeff et al.:


As you can probably guess, I would put that bird firmly in the Red-breasted x Red-naped camp.


Tony


Tony Leukering
Largo, FL
http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Davis
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2017 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance

There was this bird in Fresno County recently too:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

The continuous red on the head and nape and extension onto the face suggested hybrid to me. But I’d be interested in hearing if others think these features might be within the acceptable range for a pure Red-naped.

Jeff Davis
Fresno, CA

> On Feb 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, BRUCE DEUEL wrote:
>
> Hi Tony and all.
> In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red coloring beside and within the black breast band. To what degree do these features influence the call on the nature of the Tehama bird?
>
> Bruce Deuel
> Red Bluff, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors"
> To: birdwg01@listserv.ksu.edu , ebird-regional-editors@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:09:02 PM
> Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
>
> Hi all:
>
> First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.
>
> I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).
>
> In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.
>
> Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
>
> Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.
>
> Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is
> So, my question to you is, how large a red nape patch do you consider acceptable on RNSAs? Personally, if I had seen any of these large-patch individuals in Colorado, I would have reported them as hybrids, as they do not match my understanding of the species's appearance.
>
> Lit Cited
>
> Seneviratne, S. S., P. Davidson, K. Martin, and D. E. Irwin. 2016. Low levels of hybridization across two contact zones among three species of woodpeckers (Sphyrapicus sapsuckers). Journal of Avian Biology 47:887-898.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tony
>
> Tony Leukering
> Largo, FL
> http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...
> http://aba.org/photoquiz/
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eBird Regional Editors" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ebird-regional-editors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op... .
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sat Feb 25 2017 20:16 pm
From: heraldpetrel AT gmail.com
 
Like Jeff, I'd like opinions on this bird from Monterey recently. I thought
it was a hybrid in the field, but in checking with Sean Billerman on the
possibility, he wasn't too sure, and I'm certainly not either:

https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...

Thanks

Brian

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Davis wrote:

> There was this bird in Fresno County recently too:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch... <
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> The continuous red on the head and nape and extension onto the face
> suggested hybrid to me. But I’d be interested in hearing if others think
> these features might be within the acceptable range for a pure Red-naped.
>
> Jeff Davis
> Fresno, CA
>
> > On Feb 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, BRUCE DEUEL wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tony and all.
> > In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned
> about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red
> coloring beside and within the black breast band. To what degree do these
> features influence the call on the nature of the Tehama bird?
> >
> > Bruce Deuel
> > Red Bluff, CA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors" <
> ebird-regional-editors@googlegroups.com editors@googlegroups.com>>
> > To: birdwg01@listserv.ksu.edu ,
> ebird-regional-editors@googlegroups.com editors@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:09:02 PM
> > Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
> >
> > Hi all:
> >
> > First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple
> copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about
> identification, it has bearing on eBird review.
> >
> > I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a
> sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:
> >
> > http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
> >
> > My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's
> concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly
> connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white
> extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from
> 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field
> work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs.
> Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use
> that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main
> advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).
> >
> > In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically
> have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females
> nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That
> patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white
> supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in
> this picture:
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 231792733.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head,
> particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into
> the black auriculars, such as on this bird:
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 190024809.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white
> feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more
> extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.
> >
> > Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am
> familar include these from south of Colorado:
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 190024809.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 195807342.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was
> that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that
> looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and
> considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking
> through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I
> found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape
> patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six
> pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 133859788.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 228837726.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all
> west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the
> same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the
> extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of
> the birds.
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 223513945.334541348.1399337695
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 231784797.334541348.1399337695
> >
> >
> > Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact
> zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the
> western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC).
> Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,
> >
> > https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
> 334541348.1399337695
> >
> > has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest
> that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.
> >
> > Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably
> migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of
> sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the
> Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the
> northwestern corner of which is from the known breeding range of the species.
> >
> > So, my question to you is, how large a red nape patch do you consider
> acceptable on RNSAs? Personally, if I had seen any of these large-patch
> individuals in Colorado, I would have reported them as hybrids, as they do
> not match my understanding of the species's appearance.
> >
> > Lit Cited
> >
> > Seneviratne, S. S., P. Davidson, K. Martin, and D. E. Irwin. 2016. Low
> levels of hybridization across two contact zones among three species of
> woodpeckers (Sphyrapicus sapsuckers). Journal of Avian Biology 47:887-898.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > Tony Leukering
> > Largo, FL
> > http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...
> > http://aba.org/photoquiz/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "eBird Regional Editors" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to ebird-regional-editors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com ebird-regional-editors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> .
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op... <
> https://groups.google.com/d/op... .
> >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw... <
> https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
===========


*Brian L. SullivaneBird Project Leader *
www.ebird.org

*Photo Editor*
Birds of North America Online
http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/B...
-------------------------------

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sat Feb 25 2017 17:32 pm
From: jndavis AT ucsc.edu
 
There was this bird in Fresno County recently too:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

The continuous red on the head and nape and extension onto the face suggested hybrid to me. But I’d be interested in hearing if others think these features might be within the acceptable range for a pure Red-naped.

Jeff Davis
Fresno, CA

> On Feb 25, 2017, at 3:09 PM, BRUCE DEUEL wrote:
>
> Hi Tony and all.
> In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red coloring beside and within the black breast band. To what degree do these features influence the call on the nature of the Tehama bird?
>
> Bruce Deuel
> Red Bluff, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors"
> To: birdwg01@listserv.ksu.edu , ebird-regional-editors@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:09:02 PM
> Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
>
> Hi all:
>
> First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.
>
> I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).
>
> In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.
>
> Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
>
> Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,
>
> https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...
>
> has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.
>
> Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is
> So, my question to you is, how large a red nape patch do you consider acceptable on RNSAs? Personally, if I had seen any of these large-patch individuals in Colorado, I would have reported them as hybrids, as they do not match my understanding of the species's appearance.
>
> Lit Cited
>
> Seneviratne, S. S., P. Davidson, K. Martin, and D. E. Irwin. 2016. Low levels of hybridization across two contact zones among three species of woodpeckers (Sphyrapicus sapsuckers). Journal of Avian Biology 47:887-898.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tony
>
> Tony Leukering
> Largo, FL
> http://cowyebird.blogspot.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...
> http://aba.org/photoquiz/
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eBird Regional Editors" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ebird-regional-editors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op... .
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sat Feb 25 2017 17:09 pm
From: bdeuel AT wildblue.net
 
Hi Tony and all.
In addition to the large nape patch on the Tehama bird I was concerned about the large amount of red on the cheek area, and the obvious red coloring beside and within the black breast band. To what degree do these features influence the call on the nature of the Tehama bird?

Bruce Deuel
Red Bluff, CA

----- Original Message -----

From: "'Tony Leukering' via eBird Regional Editors"
To: birdwg01@listserv.ksu.edu, ebird-regional-editors@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:09:02 PM
Subject: [eBird Regional Editors] Red-naped Sapsucker appearance

Hi all:

First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.

I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).

In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.

Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,

https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...

has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.

Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is



Subject: Red-naped Sapsucker appearance
Date: Sat Feb 25 2017 16:09 pm
From: 000000b797e8dae8-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi all:


First, I apologize for cross posting and some of you getting multiple copies of this missive. However, though my message is a query about identification, it has bearing on eBird review.


I was recently asked by Bruce Deuel my opinion of the identity of a sapsucker reported as a Red-naped (RNSA) from Tehama County, California:


http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...


My first thought upon seeing the photos was, "I understand Bruce's concern." The pictured bird has an extensive red nape patch that nearly connects with the crown patch and almost completely obscures the white extending from the nape into the supercilium with which I am familiar from 14 years in Colorado (and quite a few of those actually conducting field work on Red-naped Sapsuckers). So, I went looking for pictures of RNSAs. Now that eBird/Macaulay Library has such a large picture archive, I use that instead of my former go-to picture site, Flickr, with the main advantage is that every picture is geo-referenced (a minority is in Flickr).


In Colorado, definitive-plumaged and formative-plumaged RNSAs typically have a fairly small patch of red on the nape, with many immature females nearly lacking red there and with many nape patches NOT solidly red. That patch does not wrap around to the side of the head and it abuts the white supercilia wrapping around the head from the sides, such as the adult in this picture:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The occasional RNSA in Colorado shows a bit of extra red on the head, particularly in the supercilium behind the eye, sometimes extending into the black auriculars, such as on this bird:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


The above picture also shows the typical bleed-through of white feathering on the nape patch, even though this bird's patch is more extensive, both vertically and laterally, than is typical in Colorado.


Other birds exhibiting the appearance typical of RNSAs with which I am familar include these from south of Colorado:


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


One of the more interesting facets of Bruce asking me his question was that I had just the day before run across a picture of a reported RNSA that looked very like the Tehama County bird (perhaps it was that bird) and considered flagging it for eBird review. However, I didn't. When looking through the first few hundred of the recently uploaded pictures of RNSA, I found six that are similar to the Tehama County bird in that the red nape patch is extensive. There could well be more, but the trend in the six pictures that I did find was pretty strong, so started writing this note.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


Note that these six birds were all photographed in winter and were all west of the Rocky Mountains. Additionally, these next two birds meet the same temporal and geographic parameters of those above, but that the extensiveness of the red nape patch is less certain due to the posture of the birds.


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...




Seneviratne et al. (2016, and references therein) noted that the contact zone between breeding Red-breasted Sapsucker (RBSA) and RNSA is in the western edge of the Interior Plateau of British Columbia (BC). Interestingly, this sapsucker, from the Okanagan area of southern BC,


https://macaulaylibrary.org/as...


has an incredible amount of red on the head for a RNSA and I suggest that it is a hybrid RBSA x RNSA.


Breeding sapsuckers from the contact zone and surrounding area probably migrate west of the Rocky Mountains, as there is little evidence of sapsuckers with extensive red on the head from the Rockies or east of the Rockies. As example, there are no records of RBSA from Montana, the northwestern corner of which is



Subject: Wren ID
Date: Wed Feb 22 2017 21:24 pm
From: silcock AT rosssilcock.com
 
http://www.noubirds.org/Birds/...

At the above link, select photos by species (filed here
under Bewick's Wren), and then only consider pics dated 15
Dec 2012.

This wren was photographed in Scotts Bluff County, far
western Nebraska 15 Dec 2012. For either Carolina or
Bewick's Wren, this is an extraordinary occurrence at that
location, and the identity of this bird has not been
ascertained.

We would very much appreciate comments of the ID.

Thank you,

Ross Silcock
Member,
Nebraska Ornithologists' Union
Records Committee

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


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