Ron, Jean and all:

I acknowledge the points that you made, which is why I first concluded that this is a small-billed male Long-billed Dowitcher, but a few plumage sticking points caused me to change my mind. Here they are:



1) there is an absence of strong dark spotting across the upper breast, which virtually all LBDOs show in spring, even in mid-molt like this bird. All the LBDOs that I viewed in Utah last month had strong spotting on the upper breast, and many were in transition molt with whitish vents..



2) there is no obvious barring on the lower flanks, which LBDO would show at this stage of molt, and even in nonbreeding plumage. Hendersoni can show spots or weak barring on the lower flanks, but this bird shows very few markings on the lower flanks.



3) the eyering seems to be as bold on the upper half as the lower half, and although prominent, does not show the typical bolder lower eye crescent versus a weaker upper eye crescent that LBDO does. The gray face affects this feature, but even nonbreeding LBDOs show a bold lower eye crescent compared to the upper one.



4) The very small bars on the upper flanks lack the obvious shaggy white fringing that is present in spring and early summer LBDOs (compare to the links on your Ontario birds). Hendersoni SBDOs that show small bars on the upper flanks typically lack any prominent shaggy white fringing, but can show small white tips.



If we could see a decent image of this bird, there would be no doubt as to its ID, but this single photo is hard to assess critically. After commenting publicly a month ago that this bird was a LBDO, at least I have good company with Ron and Jean, but I have my doubts today. At least it opened a discussion about the plumage state of spring LBDOs in molt, which is not covered in any guide sufficiently (even The Shorebird Guide). I will post a comparative photo of a similar hendersoni SBDO that I took last month in NJ that I digitized with a LBDO in a comparative pose next to it. It is too late tonight to add it to my website for viewing by this forum, as dinner is calling.



Kevin Karlson









----- Original Message -----

From: "Jean Iron" 

To: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET, BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:55:27 PM

Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA









Dear Ken and Kevin,







We identify this bird as a Long-billed Dowitcher for the following reasons:







(1) This bird has well-formed bars on the side the breast in front of the bend of wing, which is typical of Long-billed, whereas hendersoni has round spots, sometimes short Vs if intergrading towards nominate griseus.







(2) Prominent white tips to the scapulars that are cut straight across, typical of Long-billed.







(3) Obvious white lower eyering typical of Long-billed; eyering rarely this obvious on Short-billed.







(4) When the rufous coloration extends to end of undertail coverts in hendersoni, the belly is normally unspotted.







This dowitcher is a lightly marked and still molting Long-billed. We’ve seen similar birds in April and early May.







See the variation in Long-billeds in these links taken roughly the same date near Point Pelee, Ontario. Note photos 4-5-6.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron



Toronto, Ontario



















From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [ mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU ] On Behalf Of karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:16 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA









re: dowitcher still images



Kirk, Ken and all:

After viewing these images, I want to change my initial response to the video capture and say that I feel that this bird is a Short-billed Dowitcher of the hendersoni subspecies. I saw a few birds like this near Cape May this spring, and after viewing hundreds of similar plumaged Long-billed Dowitchers near Salt Lake City last month, I feel that this bird is too slender overall, especially in the shoulders, neck and undercarraige, to be a Long-billed Dowitcher. Also, SBDO of the hendersoni subspecies can show some heavy barring on the upper flanks like this bird, but they typically lack barring on the flanks and undertail, and usually show a lack of heavy spotting across the upper breast like in LBDO. I was first sidetracked by the fairly narrow reddish fringes to the back feathers of this bird, with hendersoni typically showing broader, more prominent orange barring, but a small number of hendersoni can show narrower fringes like this bird, which might suggest an intergrade with griseus SBDO. I see a few candidates for intergrade hendersoni/griseus among the 5000 or so SBDOs that frequent Heislerville NJ each May, where griseus outnumbers hendersoni about 200 - 1 (wild estimate, since I don't do statistical analysis for this situation). After viewing these stills, I have to put my vote in the SBDO hendersoni camp. Kevin Karlson







From: "Kirk Zufelt" < zufelt_k@SHAW.CA >

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:12:34 PM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA



































Ken- In regards to the Cory's Shearwater. I think the paleness, washed out look of the upper back, nape,neck, face etc. are due to bleaching and general wear. The rest of this bird is very worn as well. I suspect when it molts it will look within the usual range for this species.



Kirk Zufelt

www.pelagicodyssey.ca







On 2013-06-16, at 2:13 PM, Ken Blankenship wrote:



Hello,



















I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest











recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped











video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird











has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been











dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills











captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the











background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."























Links to still pics:























http://www.smugmug.com/gallery... !











i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A























http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM# !











i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A























http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM# !











i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A























http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM# !











i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A























Link to original dowitcher video:























http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM# !











i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A























The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near











shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of











Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day











commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and











face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this











variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"























Link to pics:























http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...























http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...























As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!























Ken Blankenship











Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA























Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

















Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

To all.







I thought I would comment briefly as a supplement to Ron and Jean’s point #2. There are a smattering of quite visible fresh alternate lower scapulars that have dark centres and thick white distal edges with the white edge not encompassing the entire feather fringe. This also includes the dark shaft splitting these white edges, creating a distinct impression most appropriate for Long-billed Dowitcher.







Kevin McLaughlin



Hamilton, Ontario.







From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jean Iron

Sent: June-18-13 4:55 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA







Dear Ken and Kevin,







We identify this bird as a Long-billed Dowitcher for the following reasons:







(1) This bird has well-formed bars on the side the breast in front of the bend of wing, which is typical of Long-billed, whereas hendersoni has round spots, sometimes short Vs if intergrading towards nominate griseus.







(2) Prominent white tips to the scapulars that are cut straight across, typical of Long-billed.







(3) Obvious white lower eyering typical of Long-billed; eyering rarely this obvious on Short-billed.







(4) When the rufous coloration extends to end of undertail coverts in hendersoni, the belly is normally unspotted.







This dowitcher is a lightly marked and still molting Long-billed. We’ve seen similar birds in April and early May.







See the variation in Long-billeds in these links taken roughly the same date near Point Pelee, Ontario. Note photos 4-5-6.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron



Toronto, Ontario















From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:16 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA







re: dowitcher still images



Kirk, Ken and all:

After viewing these images, I want to change my initial response to the video capture and say that I feel that this bird is a Short-billed Dowitcher of the hendersoni subspecies. I saw a few birds like this near Cape May this spring, and after viewing hundreds of similar plumaged Long-billed Dowitchers near Salt Lake City last month, I feel that this bird is too slender overall, especially in the shoulders, neck and undercarraige, to be a Long-billed Dowitcher. Also, SBDO of the hendersoni subspecies can show some heavy barring on the upper flanks like this bird, but they typically lack barring on the flanks and undertail, and usually show a lack of heavy spotting across the upper breast like in LBDO. I was first sidetracked by the fairly narrow reddish fringes to the back feathers of this bird, with hendersoni typically showing broader, more prominent orange barring, but a small number of hendersoni can show narrower fringes like this bird, which might suggest an intergrade with griseus SBDO. I see a few candidates for intergrade hendersoni/griseus among the 5000 or so SBDOs that frequent Heislerville NJ each May, where griseus outnumbers hendersoni about 200 - 1 (wild estimate, since I don't do statistical analysis for this situation). After viewing these stills, I have to put my vote in the SBDO hendersoni camp. Kevin Karlson



  _____



From: "Kirk Zufelt" <  zufelt_k@SHAW.CA>

To:   BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:12:34 PM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA























Ken- In regards to the Cory's Shearwater.  I think the paleness, washed out look of the upper back, nape,neck, face etc. are due to bleaching and general wear. The rest of this bird is very worn as well. I suspect when it molts it will look within the usual range for this species.



Kirk Zufelt

  www.pelagicodyssey.ca







On 2013-06-16, at 2:13 PM, Ken Blankenship wrote:



Hello,







I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest



recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped



video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird



has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been



dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills



captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the



background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."







Links to still pics:







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery...



i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A







Link to original dowitcher video:







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A







The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near



shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of



Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day



commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and



face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this



variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"







Link to pics:







  http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...







  http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...







As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!







Ken Blankenship



Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA







Archives:   http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...









Archives:   http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Dear Ken and Kevin,







We identify this bird as a Long-billed Dowitcher for the following reasons:







(1) This bird has well-formed bars on the side the breast in front of the bend of wing, which is typical of Long-billed, whereas hendersoni has round spots, sometimes short Vs if intergrading towards nominate griseus.







(2) Prominent white tips to the scapulars that are cut straight across, typical of Long-billed.







(3) Obvious white lower eyering typical of Long-billed; eyering rarely this obvious on Short-billed.







(4) When the rufous coloration extends to end of undertail coverts in hendersoni, the belly is normally unspotted.







This dowitcher is a lightly marked and still molting Long-billed. We’ve seen similar birds in April and early May.







See the variation in Long-billeds in these links taken roughly the same date near Point Pelee, Ontario. Note photos 4-5-6.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Another Long-billed in molt.



http://www.jeaniron.ca/Shorebi...







Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron



Toronto, Ontario















From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:16 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA







re: dowitcher still images



Kirk, Ken and all:

After viewing these images, I want to change my initial response to the video capture and say that I feel that this bird is a Short-billed Dowitcher of the hendersoni subspecies. I saw a few birds like this near Cape May this spring, and after viewing hundreds of similar plumaged Long-billed Dowitchers near Salt Lake City last month, I feel that this bird is too slender overall, especially in the shoulders, neck and undercarraige, to be a Long-billed Dowitcher. Also, SBDO of the hendersoni subspecies can show some heavy barring on the upper flanks like this bird, but they typically lack barring on the flanks and undertail, and usually show a lack of heavy spotting across the upper breast like in LBDO. I was first sidetracked by the fairly narrow reddish fringes to the back feathers of this bird, with hendersoni typically showing broader, more prominent orange barring, but a small number of hendersoni can show narrower fringes like this bird, which might suggest an intergrade with griseus SBDO. I see a few candidates for intergrade hendersoni/griseus among the 5000 or so SBDOs that frequent Heislerville NJ each May, where griseus outnumbers hendersoni about 200 - 1 (wild estimate, since I don't do statistical analysis for this situation). After viewing these stills, I have to put my vote in the SBDO hendersoni camp. Kevin Karlson



  _____



From: "Kirk Zufelt" <  zufelt_k@SHAW.CA>

To:   BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:12:34 PM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA























Ken- In regards to the Cory's Shearwater.  I think the paleness, washed out look of the upper back, nape,neck, face etc. are due to bleaching and general wear. The rest of this bird is very worn as well. I suspect when it molts it will look within the usual range for this species.



Kirk Zufelt

  www.pelagicodyssey.ca







On 2013-06-16, at 2:13 PM, Ken Blankenship wrote:



Hello,







I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest



recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped



video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird



has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been



dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills



captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the



background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."







Links to still pics:







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery...



i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A







Link to original dowitcher video:







  http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!



i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A







The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near



shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of



Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day



commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and



face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this



variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"







Link to pics:







  http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...







  http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...







As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!







Ken Blankenship



Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA







Archives:   http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...









Archives:   http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

re: dowitcher still images



Kirk, Ken and all:

After viewing these images, I want to change my initial response to the video capture and say that I feel that this bird is a Short-billed Dowitcher of the hendersoni subspecies. I saw a few birds like this near Cape May this spring, and after viewing hundreds of similar plumaged Long-billed Dowitchers near Salt Lake City last month, I feel that this bird is too slender overall, especially in the shoulders, neck and undercarraige, to be a Long-billed Dowitcher. Also, SBDO of the hendersoni subspecies can show some heavy barring on the upper flanks like this bird, but they typically lack barring on the flanks and undertail, and usually show a lack of heavy spotting across the upper breast like in LBDO. I was first sidetracked by the fairly narrow reddish fringes to the back feathers of this bird, with hendersoni typically showing broader, more prominent orange barring, but a small number of hendersoni can show narrower fringes like this bird, which might suggest an intergrade with griseus SBDO. I see a few candidates for intergrade hendersoni/griseus among the 5000 or so SBDOs that frequent Heislerville NJ each May, where griseus outnumbers hendersoni about 200 - 1 (wild estimate, since I don't do statistical analysis for this situation). After viewing these stills, I have to put my vote in the SBDO hendersoni camp. Kevin Karlson



----- Original Message -----

From: "Kirk Zufelt" 

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:12:34 PM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: [BIRDWG01] a dowitcher and a shearwater, Georgia, USA

























Ken- In regards to the Cory's Shearwater. I think the paleness, washed out look of the upper back, nape,neck, face etc. are due to bleaching and general wear. The rest of this bird is very worn as well. I suspect when it molts it will look within the usual range for this species.



Kirk Zufelt

www.pelagicodyssey.ca







On 2013-06-16, at 2:13 PM, Ken Blankenship wrote:







Hello,



















I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest









recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped









video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird









has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been









dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills









captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the









background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."



















Links to still pics:



















http://www.smugmug.com/gallery...









i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A



















http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!









i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A



















http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!









i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A



















http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!









i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A



















Link to original dowitcher video:



















http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!









i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A



















The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near









shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of









Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day









commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and









face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this









variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"



















Link to pics:



















http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...



















http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...



















As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!



















Ken Blankenship









Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA



















Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...













Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

I only received two responses to my post about a potential nesting Rufous Hummingbird last week: both indicated that my photos seemed generally consistent with Rufous Hummingbird but neither respondent felt very confident in ruling out Broad-tailed Hummingbird (the expected breeding Selasphorus in Utah) based on the available photos, and neither did I.  Last weekend I placed a hummingbird feeder near the nest, and early this morning I returned to the site in the hopes of getting better photos.  Long story made short, I was able to get photos of the spread tail, which shows the bird in question is a female Broad-tailed Hummingbird, and not a Rufous Hummingbird.  This was an educational experience for me in the extent of iridescence that a female Broad-tailed can show in the throat.  Here is a link to a photo that shows the spread tail, and a decent impression of the extent of the throat patch:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

Thank you very much to those who were able to offer their opinions on this bird.

Sincerely,Ryan O'DonnellLogan, Utah



 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Finally, a topic I feel experienced enough to answer.  I  have looked at

many SNEG on the east coast, and cannot remember encountering  this particular

form.  Is it possible that the yellow bill is geographic in  distribution?



Brian







"If I took back half of the stupid things I have said, I would have  only

said half as much." - Me



Brian Monk, DVM

Ft. Lauderdale, Broward County,  Florida

954-802-6710





In a message dated 6/17/2013 11:00:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jcdendroica@YAHOO.COM writes:





Joe,





Perhaps,  yes. I photographed a yellow-billed variant Snowy Egret along the

beachfront  in Santa Barbara, CA during this past Christmas Bird Count in

January of this  year. In fact, I thought it was something else entirely

until it walked out  from behind the kelp pile it was feeding on showing

(mostly) black legs and  yellow feet.





Photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...



_http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...

(http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...)







Jamie  Chavez

Santa  Maria, CA











____________________________________

 From:  Joseph Morlan 

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013  11:57 AM

Subject: [BIRDWG01]  The yellow-billed morph of the juvenile Snowy Egret





On a recent visit to Alcatraz Island, San  Francisco, I was surprised by the

number of full-sized Snowy Egret  fledglings showing mostly bright yellow

bills.  I posted a few photos  and brief discussion at...



http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/S...



Other  than a 1975 article by McVaugh, I there seems to be little  published

information on this variant.  Have such birds ever been seen  away from

nesting colonies?

--

Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

"It  turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt



Archives:  http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...













Archives:  http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Joe,



Perhaps, yes. I photographed a yellow-billed variant Snowy Egret along the beachfront in Santa Barbara, CA during this past Christmas Bird Count in January of this year. In fact, I thought it was something else entirely until it walked out from behind the kelp pile it was feeding on showing (mostly) black legs and yellow feet. 



Photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...



http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...





Jamie Chavez

Santa Maria, CA





________________________________

 From: Joseph Morlan 

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:57 AM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] The yellow-billed morph of the juvenile Snowy Egret





On a recent visit to Alcatraz Island, San Francisco, I was surprised by the

number of full-sized Snowy Egret fledglings showing mostly bright yellow

bills.  I posted a few photos and brief discussion at...



http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/S...



Other than a 1975 article by McVaugh, I there seems to be little published

information on this variant.  Have such birds ever been seen away from

nesting colonies?

--

Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

"It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

On a recent visit to Alcatraz Island, San Francisco, I was surprised by the

number of full-sized Snowy Egret fledglings showing mostly bright yellow

bills.  I posted a few photos and brief discussion at...



http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/S...



Other than a 1975 article by McVaugh, I there seems to be little published

information on this variant.  Have such birds ever been seen away from

nesting colonies?

--

Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA

"It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>

>

> Ken- In regards to the Cory's Shearwater.  I think the paleness, washed out look of the upper back, nape,neck, face etc. are due to bleaching and general wear. The rest of this bird is very worn as well. I suspect when it molts it will look within the usual range for this species.

>

> Kirk Zufelt

> www.pelagicodyssey.ca

>

>

>

> On 2013-06-16, at 2:13 PM, Ken Blankenship wrote:

>

>> Hello,

>>

>> I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest

>> recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped

>> video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird

>> has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been

>> dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills

>> captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the

>> background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."

>>

>> Links to still pics:

>>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery...

>> i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A

>>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

>> i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A

>>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

>> i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A

>>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

>> i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A

>>

>> Link to original dowitcher video:

>>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

>> i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A

>>

>> The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near

>> shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of

>> Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day

>> commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and

>> face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this

>> variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"

>>

>> Link to pics:

>>

>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...

>>

>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...

>>

>> As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!

>>

>> Ken Blankenship

>> Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA

>>

>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hello,



I am posting here links to two birds that have stirred up some interest

recently. The first is a dowitcher sp. that was captured in a digiscoped

video on 28 April 2013 on a mud/sand bar at low tide. The FOREGROUND bird

has been identified as a Short-billed Dowitcher. However, there have been

dissenting analyses of the BACKGROUND bird. If you believe the stills

captured from the video are quality enough to tease out a 100% ID of the

background bird, great! If not, we're happy to leave it as a "sp."



Links to still pics:



http://www.smugmug.com/gallery...

i$88835048&k=MRDdSTs&lb=1s=A



http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

i$88834768&k=LfDRvp9&lb=1s=A



http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

i%10990083&k=bNfzjt&lb=1s=A



http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

i%10995150&k=J3rJd8q&lb=1s=A



Link to original dowitcher video:



http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/18753105_tNX5ZM#!

i$88956911&k=nQs5Skj&lb=1s=A



The second bird is a Cory's Shearwater that was encountered very near

shore, trailing a shrimp trawler, on 2 June 2013, off the coast of

Cumberland Island. Some very experienced pelagic birders aboard that day

commented on its odd coloration -- especially about the head, nape, and

face. However, the photos do not appear to indicate a Scopoli's. Is this

variation common, or is it actually something "aberrant?"



Link to pics:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...



http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...



As always, thanks in advance for your expert opinions!



Ken Blankenship

Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

A nesting Rufous Hummingbird was reported from Mendon, Utah a week ago.  Rufous Hummingbirds are regular migrants in Utah, especially in Fall migration, but are not known to breed in the state. This weekend I went with the original finders to see what would be the first state nesting record. The adult female sitting on the nest did indeed have a large central throat patch of iridescence that is supposed to be largely lacking in Broad-tailed Hummingbird, the expected Selasphorus in this area (although female Broad-taileds are described by Williamson as "rarely with a few larger spangles at lower center [of the throat]"). Is the bold central throat patch within the range of variation shown by female Broad-tailed Hummingbirds?  Due to the lighting conditions (under dense canopy) and the rapid approach of the bird to the nest, I wasn't able to get any photos of the spread tail, which should be diagnostic. The original observer described seeing "extensive" rufous in the spread tail, but my photos show little visible in the folded tail. My question for the group is whether this bird appears consistent with Rufous Hummingbird, Broad-tailed Hummingbird, or both (i.e. cannot be told from these photos).   Here is a link to fifteen photos from a variety of angles on Flickr.  Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

Sincerely,Ryan O'DonnellLogan, Utah 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Thanks Kevin and others who responded off-site, three of four also

suggesting White-rumped Sandpiper X Dunlin. This included Steve

Arena, who sent a link to a very similar individual observed in

Massachusetts last year, for which they more-or-less concluded WRSAxDUNL:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/p...



Saludos,



Peter



At 03:15 PM 6/11/2013, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:

>To all: this response was sent to Peter Pyle concerning his post

>today of a possible hybrid calidris sandpiper photographed in Mexico in May.

>

>Peter,

>this looks like the fairly well documented Dunlin/White-rumped

>Sandpiper hybrid condition that I have seen a number of times in

>photos. In fact, I have seen photos of this combination a few times

>each year over the last several years. The long, attenuated rear

>body structure and wings that suggest White-rumped seems to be a

>consistent physical trait in this hybrid mix, and the heavy

>underpart and flank streaking that lack chevron-shaped markings

>typical of Western Sandpiper but approximate the markings of

>White-rumped also suggest this species as one of the species in the

>hybrid mix. The size (noticeably larger than the nearby Western

>Sandpipers, and consistent with Dunlin's size difference from

>Western) and overall structure of the bird, including the diagnostic

>long bill with drooping tip, and the relatively short legs are

>consistent with Dunlin and don't suggest any other North American

>tundra nesting shorebird. The back pattern is also similar to

>breeding White-rumped, with bright gold to rust edges and dark

>centers to the back feathers and scapulars. I think this hybrid

>condition is fairly well supported with your bird, and the variation

>that occurs with hybrid's plumage does not encourage a feather by

>feather analysis of minute feather detail, but more importantly

>assesses the overall plumage patterns. cool bird. Thanks, Peter

>

>Kevin Karlson

>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

To all: this response was sent to Peter Pyle concerning his post today of a possible hybrid calidris sandpiper photographed in Mexico in May. 



Peter, 

this looks like the fairly well documented Dunlin/White-rumped Sandpiper hybrid condition that I have seen a number of times in photos. In fact, I have seen photos of this combination a few times each year over the last several years. The long, attenuated rear body structure and wings that suggest White-rumped seems to be a consistent physical trait in this hybrid mix, and the heavy underpart and flank streaking that lack chevron-shaped markings typical of Western Sandpiper but approximate the markings of White-rumped also suggest this species as one of the species in the hybrid mix. The size (noticeably larger than the nearby Western Sandpipers, and consistent with Dunlin's size difference from Western) and overall structure of the bird, including the diagnostic long bill with drooping tip, and the relatively short legs are consistent with Dunlin and don't suggest any other North American tundra nesting shorebird. The back pattern is also similar to breeding White-rumped, with bright gold to rust edges and dark centers to the back feathers and scapulars. I think this hybrid condition is fairly well supported with your bird, and the variation that occurs with hybrid's plumage does not encourage a feather by feather analysis of minute feather detail, but more importantly assesses the overall plumage patterns. cool bird. Thanks, Peter 



Kevin Karlson 



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Hi all -



Speculation on this bird solicited. The photos (with Western

Sandpipers) were taken 12 May 2012 in southeastern Oaxaca, Mexico, on

the north shores of Laguna Superior.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...



Peter



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Thanks to all for the opinions on the Fort Jefferson warbler I queried about. Practically all that I received supported my initial id of the bird, as a very dull female Yellow, likely of the gundlachi race. In defense of others that saw the bird, it was usually in some thick vegetation and many didn't actually see the yellow tail spots. Anyway, interesting bird which fooled some quite seasoned observers.

 

As always, ID-Frontiers has been an excellent resource!

 

Mike Todd

McKenzie, TN

birder1@bellsouth.net

www.pbase.com/mctodd

 





________________________________

From: Michael Todd 

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 1:11 PM

Subject: Warbler ID from Dry Tortugas; April 2013







Hoping to get some opinions on a warbler seen for a few days at Fort Jefferson back in late April. It was initially identified by others as a Nashville Warbler, which can be discounted pretty easily I think. But, it caused a lot of confusion for at least a couple of tour groups, with some experienced birders. Common Yellowthroat was the identification that was decided on by most, more by process of elimination; though I never could go along with that; I will leave my opinion off for now. I have 4 images of the bird posted in a gallery from the Tortugas portion of my trip, first image starts here:

http://www.pbase.com/mctodd/im...



Thanks for any input!



Mike Todd

McKenzie, TN

birder1@bellsouth.net

www.pbase.com/mctodd

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

It is a female gundlachi Yellow Warbler,the breeding subspecies of "Golden" Yellow Warbler around the Florida Keys and Cuba. Several years ago, one was ID'ed as a Bachman's Warbler in Florida.



Andy

________________________________

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] on behalf of Michael Todd [birder1 AT BELLSOUTH.NET]

Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 2:11 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Warbler ID from Dry Tortugas; April 2013



Hoping to get some opinions on a warbler seen for a few days at Fort Jefferson back in late April. It was initially identified by others as a Nashville Warbler, which can be discounted pretty easily I think. But, it caused a lot of confusion for at least a couple of tour groups, with some experienced birders. Common Yellowthroat was the identification that was decided on by most, more by process of elimination; though I never could go along with that; I will leave my opinion off for now. I have 4 images of the bird posted in a gallery from the Tortugas portion of my trip, first image starts here:

http://www.pbase.com/mctodd/im...



Thanks for any input!



Mike Todd

McKenzie, TN

birder1@bellsouth.net

www.pbase.com/mctodd

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hoping to get some opinions on a warbler seen for a few days at Fort Jefferson

back in late April. It was initially identified by others as a Nashville

Warbler, which can be discounted pretty easily I think. But, it caused a lot of

confusion for at least a couple of tour groups, with some experienced birders.

Common Yellowthroat was the identification that was decided on by most, more by

process of elimination; though I never could go along with that; I will leave my

opinion off for now. I have 4 images of the bird posted in a gallery from the

Tortugas portion of my trip, first image starts here:

http://www.pbase.com/mctodd/im...



Thanks for any input!



Mike Todd

McKenzie, TN

birder1@bellsouth.net

www.pbase.com/mctodd



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Tom,



Thanks very much.



That's the kind of "feedback-from-experience" that  I was hoping to get

from this list.  The list came through.  :-)



Now I need to know how far I'd do need to travel from Fairbanks to stand

any decent chance of seeing one.



Thanks again.



Bates E.



On Jun 7, 2013 9:57 AM, "Thomas Wetmore"  wrote:

>

> Bates,

>

> I lived in Fairbanks from 1972 to 1976 and was deep into the birding

world there. There was only one Gray-headed Chickadee reported from

Fairbanks during those four years, a bird that came to a feeder for about a

week.

>

> Tom Wetmore

>

> On Jun 7, 2013, at 8:13 AM, "Bates E."  wrote:

>

> > All,

> >

> > I am contemplating a trip to Alaska at some time and have a question.

 How far south/west in Alaska are Gray-headed Chickadees (Siberian Tit),

definitely, seen?  Do they come down/in as far as Fairbanks?

> >

> > Thanks much

> >

> > Bates Estabrooks

> > SDG

> >

> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Bates,



I lived in Fairbanks from 1972 to 1976 and was deep into the birding world there. There was only one Gray-headed Chickadee reported from Fairbanks during those four years, a bird that came to a feeder for about a week.



Tom Wetmore



On Jun 7, 2013, at 8:13 AM, "Bates E."  wrote:



> All,

>

> I am contemplating a trip to Alaska at some time and have a question.  How far south/west in Alaska are Gray-headed Chickadees (Siberian Tit), definitely, seen?  Do they come down/in as far as Fairbanks?

>

> Thanks much

>

> Bates Estabrooks

> SDG

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

All,



I am contemplating a trip to Alaska at some time and have a question.  How

far south/west in Alaska are Gray-headed Chickadees (Siberian Tit), *

definitely*, seen?  Do they come down/in as far as Fairbanks?



Thanks much



Bates Estabrooks

SDG



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Bob and all:

I did not bother to comment on this bird since it was such an obvious male Semipalmated Sandpiper, and Peter's aging analysis was right on the money. The thick based, bulbous-tipped bill, rounded head versus squarish rear head shape on Western, and even body weight distribution versus chest-heavy body structure on Western with huskier shoulders are all obvious in this photo, and all point with no doubt to Semipalmated Sandpiper. The incredible variation that I see in the 50,000 or more Semis that spend May near my house is unbelievable, and so much so that I would be hard pressed to say what it normal for adult or first spring Semis in respect to plumage. The bill is very short and probably about 18 mm long, which puts it way below the smallest male Western at 24 mm or so. It is not a good practice to get hung up on minute plumage variation in one of the most variable shorebirds in the world in respect to plumage and sexual dimorphism and start to suggest a hybrid or another species when so many structural features and distinctive plumage features are present. This is one of the easy Semis, unlike some of the Eastern Canadian breeding female Semis which have similar-sized bills that are more fine pointed and more drooping than male Westerns. This bill difference represents a cline in shape and length from West to East in Arctic regions of North America, but West Coast birds don't show the "tough" bill shapes. As for the leg color, first cycle Semis infrequently show greenish to yellowish legs in spring, and I have several photos of first spring Semis that have yellow legs. Kevin Karlson



----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob and Susan Steele" 

To: BIRDWG01@ LISTSERV . KSU . EDU

Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:11:48 AM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California









Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to me confusing characteristics. I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.







Photos can be found at:







http :// www . bobsteelephoto .com/Species/ calidris . html











Thank you, Susan Archives: http :// listserv . ksu . edu /archives/birdwg01. html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Thank you all.







I am still confused about the foot webbing and hope you can point me to a

source that explains this in excruciating detail.  Perhaps I am being too

pedantic, but all the feet I could find good photos of on the internet, such

as the excellent photo of the little stint, link below, show what to me

looks like webbing.  For that matter, even our own fingers if looked at

closely enough have webbing.  Anyone have a source or diagram that explains

this for semipalmated sandpipers.  Susan







http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/images/LSt

int1salthouse.jpg



&imgrefurl=http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/...

aHhorP1WUrfRP7VZw=&hG6&wU0&sz6&hl=e&start&zoom=1tbnid=rSMQAO7wJAp

22M:&tbnh5&tbnw3&ei=9CuUYGFLqiAiwKZgoGoCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsemipalm

ated%2Bsandpiper%2Bfeet%26sa%3DX%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1saX&vedEgQrQMwDg







  _____



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Pyle

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:55 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California







Hi all-



I don't quite see what is meant by "extensive warm bases of the scapulars"

or "warm edges on the fringes of the scaps" and in any case it'd be good to

indicate if your are referring to the alternate or non-alternate scapulars

(both present). Perchance the first image of Semipalmated Sandpiper I looked

at (Wikipedia of course) , if not a dead ringer in scapular pattern to the

China Lake bird, is certainly within range of variation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...



With the short and bulbous bill I see no reason to suspect hybrid.

Foot-webbing is fine and I believe the greenish tinge to the legs is shown

rarely but regularly in Semipalmated.



It's a first-cycle (SY) bird by the worn panel of retained juvenal greater

coverts, best seen in the open-wing image third down on the right column,

and mixed with (mostly) formative and (a few) first-alternate median and

lesser coverts. It may also have replaced some outer primaries and inner

secondaries (besides tertials) but I'm not certain of this, despite the

excellent images. The preformative molt in this species varies from partial

(perhaps like in this bird) to incomplete/eccentric to complete.



Peter



At 02:54 PM 6/4/2013, Lethaby, Nick wrote:







All:



Martin Reid e-mailed me pointing out the extensive warm bases of the

scapulars are likely at odds with a Semipalmated. I havent had time to look

a lot of photos but the ones I did seemed to show that brighter spring

Semipalmateds have the warms edges on the fringes of the scaps. If that is

true it suggests we are in a hybrid or very short-billed first-summer

Western zone.



Nick



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [

mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU  ] On

Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California



Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to

me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but

would like to hear what others think without my influence.



Photos can be found at:



http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...





Thank you, Susan

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Peter:



When I look at the pictures (from Bob Steele) in the second row, I am seeing a bird that shows a lot of cinnamon/pale chestnut on some scapular bases. It looks like the entire base is this color except for a thick black shaft streak. One the Wikipedia bird I don't see this effect, although on one on the scapulars it does appear that the black center is starting to narrow towards the base. So quite possibly the appearance of Bob Steele's bird is owing to the base of the some of scaps being more extensively exposed. If Semip has this pattern, then I see no problem calling this bird one since other features match well as you point you.



Nick



From: Peter Pyle [mailto:ppyle@birdpop.org]

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:55 PM

To: Lethaby, Nick; BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California



Hi all-



I don't quite see what is meant by "extensive warm bases of the scapulars" or "warm edges on the fringes of the scaps" and in any case it'd be good to indicate if your are referring to the alternate or non-alternate scapulars (both present). Perchance the first image of Semipalmated Sandpiper I looked at (Wikipedia of course) , if not a dead ringer in scapular pattern to the China Lake bird, is certainly within range of variation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...



With the short and bulbous bill I see no reason to suspect hybrid. Foot-webbing is fine and I believe the greenish tinge to the legs is shown rarely but regularly in Semipalmated.



It's a first-cycle (SY) bird by the worn panel of retained juvenal greater coverts, best seen in the open-wing image third down on the right column, and mixed with (mostly) formative and (a few) first-alternate median and lesser coverts. It may also have replaced some outer primaries and inner secondaries (besides tertials) but I'm not certain of this, despite the excellent images. The preformative molt in this species varies from partial (perhaps like in this bird) to incomplete/eccentric to complete.



Peter



At 02:54 PM 6/4/2013, Lethaby, Nick wrote:



All:



Martin Reid e-mailed me pointing out the extensive warm bases of the scapulars are likely at odds with a Semipalmated. I haven?t had time to look a lot of photos but the ones I did seemed to show that brighter spring Semipalmateds have the warms edges on the fringes of the scaps. If that is true it suggests we are in a hybrid or very short-billed first-summer Western zone.



Nick



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [ mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California



Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.



Photos can be found at:



http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...





Thank you, Susan

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

I forgot to add a follow-up point about the age, that first-alternate

feathers are quite variable in small Calidris, so I would worry too

much about these looking a bit off from the norm in adults. P



At 03:55 PM 6/4/2013, Peter Pyle wrote:

>Hi all-

>

>I don't quite see what is meant by "extensive warm bases of the

>scapulars" or "warm edges on the fringes of the scaps" and in any

>case it'd be good to indicate if your are referring to the alternate

>or non-alternate scapulars (both present). Perchance the first image

>of Semipalmated Sandpiper I looked at (Wikipedia of course) , if not

>a dead ringer in scapular pattern to the China Lake bird, is

>certainly within range of variation.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

>

>With the short and bulbous bill I see no reason to suspect hybrid.

>Foot-webbing is fine and I believe the greenish tinge to the legs is

>shown rarely but regularly in Semipalmated.

>

>It's a first-cycle (SY) bird by the worn panel of retained juvenal

>greater coverts, best seen in the open-wing image third down on the

>right column, and mixed with (mostly) formative and (a few)

>first-alternate median and lesser coverts. It may also have replaced

>some outer primaries and inner secondaries (besides tertials) but

>I'm not certain of this, despite the excellent images. The

>preformative molt in this species varies from partial (perhaps like

>in this bird) to incomplete/eccentric to complete.

>

>Peter

>

>At 02:54 PM 6/4/2013, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

>>All:

>>

>>Martin Reid e-mailed me pointing out the extensive warm bases of

>>the scapulars are likely at odds with a Semipalmated. I haven't had

>>time to look a lot of photos but the ones I did seemed to show that

>>brighter spring Semipalmateds have the warms edges on the fringes

>>of the scaps. If that is true it suggests we are in a hybrid or

>>very short-billed first-summer Western zone.

>>

>>Nick

>>

>>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [

>>mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

>>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

>>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>>Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California

>>

>>Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what

>>are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID

>>of the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.

>>

>>Photos can be found at:

>>

>>http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...

>>

>>

>>Thank you, Susan

>>Archives:

>>http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>>

>>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hi all-



I don't quite see what is meant by "extensive warm bases of the

scapulars" or "warm edges on the fringes of the scaps" and in any

case it'd be good to indicate if your are referring to the alternate

or non-alternate scapulars (both present). Perchance the first image

of Semipalmated Sandpiper I looked at (Wikipedia of course) , if not

a dead ringer in scapular pattern to the China Lake bird, is

certainly within range of variation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...



With the short and bulbous bill I see no reason to suspect hybrid.

Foot-webbing is fine and I believe the greenish tinge to the legs is

shown rarely but regularly in Semipalmated.



It's a first-cycle (SY) bird by the worn panel of retained juvenal

greater coverts, best seen in the open-wing image third down on the

right column, and mixed with (mostly) formative and (a few)

first-alternate median and lesser coverts. It may also have replaced

some outer primaries and inner secondaries (besides tertials) but I'm

not certain of this, despite the excellent images. The preformative

molt in this species varies from partial (perhaps like in this bird)

to incomplete/eccentric to complete.



Peter



At 02:54 PM 6/4/2013, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

>All:

>

>Martin Reid e-mailed me pointing out the extensive warm bases of the

>scapulars are likely at odds with a Semipalmated. I haven't had time

>to look a lot of photos but the ones I did seemed to show that

>brighter spring Semipalmateds have the warms edges on the fringes of

>the scaps. If that is true it suggests we are in a hybrid or very

>short-billed first-summer Western zone.

>

>Nick

>

>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California

>

>Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what

>are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of

>the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.

>

>Photos can be found at:

>

>http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...

>

>

>Thank you, Susan

>Archives:

>http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>

>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

All:



Martin Reid e-mailed me pointing out the extensive warm bases of the scapulars are likely at odds with a Semipalmated. I haven't had time to look a lot of photos but the ones I did seemed to show that brighter spring Semipalmateds have the warms edges on the fringes of the scaps. If that is true it suggests we are in a hybrid or very short-billed first-summer Western zone.



Nick



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California



Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.



Photos can be found at:



http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...





Thank you, Susan

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Bob:



To me this looks like a Semipalmated Sandpiper. The main odd issue is the white V on the back. I don't recall seeing this on any adult stint other than Little. However lots of other things are wrong for Little.



Nick



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob and Susan Steele

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:12 AM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] calidris in California



Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.



Photos can be found at:



http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...





Thank you, Susan

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Nice series of photos; especially the ones of the feet.  I detect webbing

in the feet shots and so would vote for a Semipalmated Sandpiper on this

one.



Best,



Andrew Baksh

Queens, NY

www.birdingdude.blogspot.com





On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Bob and Susan Steele wrote:



> ** **

>

> Yesterday I found a calidris in southern ****California****, which has

> what are to me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of

> the bird, but would like to hear what others think without my influence.**

> **

>

> ** **

>

> Photos can be found at:****

>

> ** **

>

> http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/Species/calidris.html****

>

> ** **

>

> ** **

>

> Thank you, Susan ****

>  Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Yesterday I found a calidris in southern California, which has what are to

me confusing characteristics.  I have an opinion of the ID of the bird, but

would like to hear what others think without my influence.







Photos can be found at:







http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/...











Thank you, Susan





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Hi -



I do not have specimens at hand, but just want to comment that both species

have considerable "reverse" sexual dimorphism.  Females are considerably

larger.



If you happen  to be trying to identify a raptor by a measured track size,

it's worth noting that harriers have unfeathered feet, and Great Horned

Owls have much thicker, feathred toes, which should leave a very different

track appearance.



Wayne





On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 6:13 AM, DJ Lauten and KACastelein <

deweysage@frontier.com> wrote:



> This one is likely for museum folks:

>

> Can anyone out there with specimens at their access give me some

> measurements on the size of the bottom of a spread open Northern Harrier

> foot?   I'm looking for the size in centimeters from the front toe to the

> rear toe, particularly from the where the toe pad starts at the base of the

> front toe nail to the end of the foot pad at the rear of the back toe.

> I'm looking for the approximate size of what their foot print would be (say

> in sand).   I'd be curious to know what a Great Horned Owl's toe size is

> too.

>

> Thanks to anyone who has the time to do this!

>

> Cheers

> Dave Lauten

> Oregon Biodiversity Information Center

> Institute for Natural Resources

> Portland State University

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/**archives/birdwg01.html

>



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

This one is likely for museum folks:



Can anyone out there with specimens at their access give me some

measurements on the size of the bottom of a spread open Northern Harrier

foot?   I'm looking for the size in centimeters from the front toe to

the rear toe, particularly from the where the toe pad starts at the base

of the front toe nail to the end of the foot pad at the rear of the back

toe.   I'm looking for the approximate size of what their foot print

would be (say in sand).   I'd be curious to know what a Great Horned

Owl's toe size is too.



Thanks to anyone who has the time to do this!



Cheers

Dave Lauten

Oregon Biodiversity Information Center

Institute for Natural Resources

Portland State University



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Saw this interesting Cliff Swallow May 19th at Mann Lake, Nez Perce County, Idaho, USA. Do you think 

this bird may belong to the Southwestern / Mexican *swainsoni* (=*melanogaster*) subspecies of 

Cliff Swallow or do you think it is something else? Thanks for your help.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/j...



John Hanna

Lewiston, Idaho

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Thanks all:

   Good replies.  Below Nick about sums up the returns.  Least Flycatcher folks sound convinced.  No western type Empi votes; a couple of YBFL votes.  That may have been influence by my bias presentation, caused by my thinking YBFL was the default ID on this bird.

Well done.  Best,Bill Rudden



--- On Thu, 5/30/13, Lethaby, Nick  wrote:



From: Lethaby, Nick 

Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID

To: "Bill Rudden" , "BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU" 

Date: Thursday, May 30, 2013, 11:52 AM



















Bill:

  

I tend to agree with Dave and Tim that doesn’t look a great fit for Hammond’s. I would expect a narrower, less convex-edged bill with a darker tip (although

 winter Hammond’s can certainly show a pale lower mandible), longer primary projection, and grayer head. I’m not sure why Yellow-bellied is a better candidate than Least.

  

Nick

  



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU]

On Behalf Of Bill Rudden



Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:24 PM



To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU



Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID



  











Hello All:





  



  Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under canopy of large Gum tree.



  Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?





Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band; 





primary extension from tertials



  





http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...







  





Thanks for any opinions.





Respectfully,





Bill Rudden





St.Louis MO





Midwest, USA











Archives:

http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...











Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

I was a bit more supportive of Hammond's than the others at first, as

the small and narrow bill appears best for this species, and I

believe lower mandible color and most other plumage features are

within range for a spring Hammond's. But I agree with Nick that Least

is probably the more likely species, despite a bill that appears, at

least, too narrow for Least. It's a first-cycle bird by the brown

primary tips contrasting with the replaced tertials, and the narrow

and worn rectrices. The extent of the preformative molt, including

most greater coverts and all three tertials fits Least better than

Hammonds (which typically molts fewer feathers) and the blacker and

boldly edged formative wing feathers is also better for Least. As

noted, primary projection seems too short for Hammond's but right for

Least, and I might also expect to see paler edged outer rectrices on

a Hammond's.



Peter



At 09:52 AM 5/30/2013, Lethaby, Nick wrote:

>Bill:

>

>I tend to agree with Dave and Tim that doesn't look a great fit for

>Hammond's. I would expect a narrower, less convex-edged bill with a

>darker tip (although winter Hammond's can certainly show a pale

>lower mandible), longer primary projection, and grayer head. I'm not

>sure why Yellow-bellied is a better candidate than Least.

>

>Nick

>

>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Rudden

>Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:24 PM

>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID

>

>Hello All:

>

>   Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under

> canopy of large Gum tree.

>   Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?

>Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band;

>primary extension from tertials

>

>http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...

>

>Thanks for any opinions.

>Respectfully,

>Bill Rudden

>St.Louis MO

>Midwest, USA

>Archives:

>http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>

>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Bill:



I tend to agree with Dave and Tim that doesn't look a great fit for Hammond's. I would expect a narrower, less convex-edged bill with a darker tip (although winter Hammond's can certainly show a pale lower mandible), longer primary projection, and grayer head. I'm not sure why Yellow-bellied is a better candidate than Least.



Nick



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Rudden

Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:24 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID



Hello All:



  Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under canopy of large Gum tree.

  Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?

Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band;

primary extension from tertials



http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...



Thanks for any opinions.

Respectfully,

Bill Rudden

St.Louis MO

Midwest, USA



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Bill et al.,

I agree with Tim Janzen, this bird doesn't fit Hammond's Flycatcher. Tim's assessment of the bill shape and color is accurate. The angle on the dorsal shots makes it really hard to get a good feel for the primary projection, but it does seem too short for Hammond's. The tail length seems too short for Dusky and the bill width and overall proportions don't seem to fit Dusky either. I can't readily name this bird, which is probably prudent since ID'ing Empids from photos is always dicey.

Dave IronsPortland, OR

Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 22:57:11 -0700

From: tjanzen@COMCAST.NET

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU



Dear Bill,I have problems arriving at the identification of Hammond’s Flycatcher for this bird.  In my opinion, the bill seems a little long and a little bit wider at the base than would be typical of a Hammond’s Flycatcher.  The underbill is also much paler than would be typical for a Hammond’s Flycatcher.  The primary extension also seems short for a Hammond’s Flycatcher.  Finally, the belly is significantly yellower than would be typical for a Hammond’s Flycatcher.  The bill shape and underbill coloration look much better for YBFL in my opinion.  I wish you could have this bird fly to Oregon!Sincerely,Tim JanzenPortland, OR  From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Rudden

Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:24 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID Hello All:   Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under canopy of large Gum tree.  Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band; primary extension from tertials http://www.flickr.com/photos/2... Thanks for any opinions.Respectfully,Bill RuddenSt.Louis MOMidwest, USAArchives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv... Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Dear Bill,



I have problems arriving at the identification of Hammond's Flycatcher for

this bird.  In my opinion, the bill seems a little long and a little bit

wider at the base than would be typical of a Hammond's Flycatcher.  The

underbill is also much paler than would be typical for a Hammond's

Flycatcher.  The primary extension also seems short for a Hammond's

Flycatcher.  Finally, the belly is significantly yellower than would be

typical for a Hammond's Flycatcher.  The bill shape and underbill coloration

look much better for YBFL in my opinion.  I wish you could have this bird

fly to Oregon!



Sincerely,



Tim Janzen



Portland, OR











From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Rudden

Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:24 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hammond's/Dusky Flycatcher ID









Hello All:







  Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under canopy

of large Gum tree.



  Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?



Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band;



primary extension from tertials







http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...







Thanks for any opinions.



Respectfully,



Bill Rudden



St.Louis MO



Midwest, USA



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hello All:

  Here a Empi from St. Louis MO.  Pics taken in overcast sky, under canopy of large Gum tree.  Does the dark cheek; malar; and chin eliminate YBFL?Note ragged crest shown (first pic); buff breast band; primary extension from tertials



http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...

Thanks for any opinions.Respectfully,Bill RuddenSt.Louis MOMidwest, USA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Folks







   The following question came to me, and I figure that others are thinking

the same thing. But the only way you know is if it is obvious! It is like

any other hybrid situation, unless it is obviously intermediate in look, you

cannot tell. These two orioles have a hybrid zone where in it, all birds are

intermediate looking, and the closer you get to the main range of either

parental species, the more like the parental species they look. Even with

adult males at the edge of the hybrid zone there are birds which are

essentially pure looking except for a tiny difference, like a few orange

feathers on the supercilium of a Baltimore looking bird. So if it can be

that subtle with adults, it is going to be even more difficult to say on

young birds. So unless there is an obvious sign of hybridization, then you

have no way of knowing.







BTY - most hybrid orioles are not F1 crosses, they are mixed gene birds from

mixed gene populations. You hardly ever, see a Baltimore breeding with a

Bullock's type bird in western Kansas; they tend to be intermediate birds

breeding with intermediate looking birds. So definitely not the classic F1

scenario.







Alvaro







Alvaro Jaramillo



alvaro@alvarosadventures.com



www.alvarosadventures.com







  _____



From: michael mlodinow [mailto:mamlod@hotmail.com]

Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:31 PM

To: Alvaro Jaramillo

Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Oriole ID







Alvaro, but it would still be interesting to know to tell a young male

Baltimore from a f1 cross between Baltimore and Bullock's.



Thanks,

Mike





  _____



Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 07:22:28 -0700

From: chucao@COASTSIDE.NET

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Oriole ID

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU



Andrew







  I always think it is odd that Baltimore is so variable (song, female

plumage, immature plumages), and Bullock's is so standard (song, all

plumages). It is as if Bullock's is the dull and boring one, and Baltimore

lets its weird flag fly. So given the large range of variation, one has to

flip the question. Is there anything in this bird that suggests Bullock's

over Baltimore? Is anything out of the normal for Baltimore? I would say no,

this looks pretty much like a normal middle of the road young male

Baltimore. Adult females can look like this too, some can look like adult

males except for a greenish tail! The molt in the coverts clarifies that

this is a young bird, so not an adult female, but a young male. Young

females should not show this much black on them.







Note that the 2011 bird from Portal shows definite Bullock's like features

such as full black throat yet orange malar, bold orange supercilium etc.







Regards,







Alvaro







Alvaro Jaramillo



alvaro@alvarosadventures.com



www.alvarosadventures.com







  _____



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Andrew Core

Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:38 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Oriole ID







Hi all,







An interesting oriole appeared in Portal, AZ on 22 May 2013 at the feeders

of Bob Rodrigues (Dave Jasper's old place) on Foothills Road.







It was posted as a juvenile male Baltimore Oriole, but I'm curious how one

would separate a young molting bird from a Bullock's x Baltimore cross.







set of six photos here:



 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...







and Laurens Halsey got a a better one of the wing here:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/6...









 A quick internet search turned up a similar bird from Illinois (middle

bird):



http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topicH321.0







And a similar bird from Portal in May 2011:



http://www.azfo.org/gallery/20...

ailway_Yerger_26_May_2011.html







Thoughts?







thanks-



Andrew









--

Andrew Core

Tucson, AZ



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Andrew







  I always think it is odd that Baltimore is so variable (song, female

plumage, immature plumages), and Bullock's is so standard (song, all

plumages). It is as if Bullock's is the dull and boring one, and Baltimore

lets its weird flag fly. So given the large range of variation, one has to

flip the question. Is there anything in this bird that suggests Bullock's

over Baltimore? Is anything out of the normal for Baltimore? I would say no,

this looks pretty much like a normal middle of the road young male

Baltimore. Adult females can look like this too, some can look like adult

males except for a greenish tail! The molt in the coverts clarifies that

this is a young bird, so not an adult female, but a young male. Young

females should not show this much black on them.







Note that the 2011 bird from Portal shows definite Bullock's like features

such as full black throat yet orange malar, bold orange supercilium etc.







Regards,







Alvaro







Alvaro Jaramillo



alvaro@alvarosadventures.com



www.alvarosadventures.com







  _____



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Andrew Core

Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:38 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Oriole ID







Hi all,







An interesting oriole appeared in Portal, AZ on 22 May 2013 at the feeders

of Bob Rodrigues (Dave Jasper's old place) on Foothills Road.







It was posted as a juvenile male Baltimore Oriole, but I'm curious how one

would separate a young molting bird from a Bullock's x Baltimore cross.







set of six photos here:



 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...







and Laurens Halsey got a a better one of the wing here:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/6...







 A quick internet search turned up a similar bird from Illinois (middle

bird):



http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topicH321.0







And a similar bird from Portal in May 2011:



http://www.azfo.org/gallery/20...

ailway_Yerger_26_May_2011.html







Thoughts?







thanks-



Andrew









--

Andrew Core

Tucson, AZ



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hi all,



An interesting oriole appeared in Portal, AZ on 22 May 2013 at the feeders

of Bob Rodrigues (Dave Jasper's old place) on Foothills Road.



It was posted as a juvenile male Baltimore Oriole, but I'm curious how one

would separate a young molting bird from a Bullock's x Baltimore cross.



set of six photos here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...



and Laurens Halsey got a a better one of the wing here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6...



 A quick internet search turned up a similar bird from Illinois (middle

bird):

http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topicH321.0



And a similar bird from Portal in May 2011:

http://www.azfo.org/gallery/20...



Thoughts?



thanks-

Andrew



--

Andrew Core

Tucson, AZ



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

I was re-sighting flagged shorebirds for NJ Audubon at Fortescue Beach on

the Delaware Bay shore on Wednesday when I came across a bird I believe to

be Western Sandpiper.  For those of you who don't know, that would be quite

rare in spring in NJ and even rarer in late May.  I was only able to get

photos of it from behind, making it very hard to confirm an ID after the

fact.  I am fairly confident this is what I saw for these reasons:



Stocky, proportionally more similar to a small Dunlin, and ever so slightly

larger than the other Semis



Bright rufous tones to the cap, cheek, and scapulars



Relatiely long bill



Blocky head



Streaking that extended further down the breast than the typical semi.



I would really love some feedback on this bird, mostly because I am

interested in learning something about separating these two species, rather

than because I expect to get a firm answer from my photos, which I know can

be misleading, and in this case do not well-represent all of what I saw.



Photos are on my blog, http://boomchachalaca.blogspot... (the last three

photos on the most recent post)



Best,

Lukas Musher



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Walter, Dave et al.







   This one is so old you will have to make sure the pages don't crack into

dust when you open up the magazine, I also have not looked at it recently to

see if it still applies. However, it does talk about how you can try and

look for the wing formula difference in the two species while they are on

the ground:







Jaramillo, A. and P. Burke. 1999. Identification Review: Red-winged and

Tricolored Blackbirds. Birding 31(4): 320-327.







The ABA does not go this far back on the archives, and I have no digital

copy.







Regards,







Alvaro







Alvaro Jaramillo



alvaro@alvarosadventures.com



www.alvarosadventures.com







  _____



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:14 AM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification







Walter,







I'm not seeing anything that would make me think that this male blackbird is

a Tricolored. The orangish cast to the red part of the epaulet, combined

with the yellow to cream-colored tips of the epaulet strikes me as the

typical pattern shown by many of the Red-winged Blackbirds that I see in the

Pacific Northwest.







Here in Oregon, we've had a couple of recent online threads about Red-winged

vs. Tricolored ID. In addition to looking at lots of photos and reading some

good articles on this topic, I queried both Alvara Jaramillo and Peter Pyle

about some of the variation that I've seen in young males and females. In

addition to providing some great firsthand feedback, they pointed me to

other authoritative articles on this topic. One was written by Phil Unitt,

who manages the avian collection at the San Diego Museum of Natural History.

He pointed out that if one wants to see how much one species can vary in

appearance geographically, they need look no further than Red-winged

Blackbird.







I summarized what I learned in a short photo essay/ID discussion piece on

this topic that is published in the BirdFellow Journal (online).







http://www.birdfellow.com/jour...

_in_red_winged_blackbirds







Dave Irons



Portland, OR











> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 20:48:10 -0700

> From: walter.szeliga@GMAIL.COM

> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification

> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>

> Dear IDers,

> There has recently been a handful of reports of Tricolored Blackbirds

> in south central Washington State, on the dry, east side of the

> Cascades, but west of known breeding localities in Washington. These

> birds are typically singletons in large flocks of Red-winged

> Blackbirds. Some have been photographed and many who see them report

> that they sound different than the surrounding Red-winged Blackbirds.

> My experience with mixed Red-winged and Tricolored flocks in northern

> Los Angeles County were nearly always aided by the large flock size

> (of both types), their self-segregation, and quite distinct

> vocalizations. In isolation, the crispness of the white on male

> Tricolored's was often obvious, but not always. In addition, the

> crispness of the white started to disappear and overlap with faded

> yellow on the Red-winged Blackbirds by Summer.

> Here is a link to at least one of the photos:

>

> http://www.granstrand.net/gall...

>

> Two more photos from a bird with much whiter epaulets at the same

> location:

>

> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S14064687

>

> To me, the first photo (DSCN3642a) looks quite a bit like a number of

> the Red-winged Blackbirds currently being seen in my backyard in

> Ellensburg, WA not far north (50 miles as the, errr Blackbird flies)

> of where photograph DSCN3642a was taken. In particular, the coloring

> on the bottom of the epaulets of the folded wing (major coverts, I

> believe) are a distinct creamy white on the birds in my yard, and I

> would argue also on the photo linked to earlier.

>

> Assuming that, aside from the white on the epaulets, bill shape and

> primary projection are the other two major identifying criteria for

> Tricolored Blackbird, I'd say that the bill in the photograph is quite

> pointy, but I don't know if that's useful in isolation, and the

> primary projection isn't easy to judge in the photo.

>

> My questions are, does anyone think any of these are Tricolored

> Blackbirds, and what are some useful diagnostic criteria for

> identifying lone Tricolored males in flocks of Red-winged Blackbirds

> (if that is even a common occurrence).

>

> Thanks,

> Walter Szeliga

> Ellensburg, WA

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

I didn't scroll down far enough into the eBird report to see the second two images. I would agree with Alvaro that the bird(s) in those images appears to be Tricolored Blackbirds. They red is more blood red rather than orangish, and the tip of the epaulet looks pretty white.

Dave Irons



> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 23:21:41 -0700

> From: chucao@COASTSIDE.NET

> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification

> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>

> Walter

>

>   Outside of range, if you are not detailing the specifics of the wing

> formula, color of any retained edging on upperparts, assessment of

> iridescence, bill shape, or comparative color of the red in the epaulet, the

> only way to go is voice. The vocalizations are absolutely diagnostic and are

> not a tad different, but exceedingly different. A well heard Tricolored

> Blackbird will sound so un-redwing like that it should be pretty well a

> sealed deal. It would be good to record the bird on video with a cell phone

> to have the voice for others to listen to.

>   The first photo is a Red-winged based on the bits you mention, also a

> relatively thick bill. The second might be a Tricolored, it looks pretty

> good, but the photos are not good enough to know for sure.

>   There are no known hybrids between these two species, they breed side by

> side in various spots so they have plenty of chances to hybridize but they

> do not. I have yet to see any bird that seemed intermediate in the field,

> with the caveat that they are similar looking, so a hybrid would be

> difficult to spot...although in fall when differences are heightened it

> should be doable with good views.

>

> Good birding,

>

> Alvaro

>

> Alvaro Jaramillo

> alvaro@alvarosadventures.com

> www.alvarosadventures.com

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

> [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Walter Szeliga

> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:48 PM

> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification

>

> Dear IDers,

> 	There has recently been a handful of reports of Tricolored

> Blackbirds

> in south central Washington State, on the dry, east side of the

> Cascades, but west of known breeding localities in Washington.  These

> birds are typically singletons in large flocks of Red-winged

> Blackbirds.  Some have been photographed and many who see them report

> that they sound different than the surrounding Red-winged Blackbirds.

> My experience with mixed Red-winged and Tricolored flocks in northern

> Los Angeles County were nearly always aided by the large flock size

> (of both types), their self-segregation, and quite distinct

> vocalizations.  In isolation, the crispness of the white on male

> Tricolored's was often obvious, but not always.  In addition, the

> crispness of the white started to disappear and overlap with faded

> yellow on the Red-winged Blackbirds by Summer.

> 	Here is a link to at least one of the photos:

>

> http://www.granstrand.net/gall...

>

> Two more photos from a bird with much whiter epaulets at the same

> location:

>

> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S14064687

>

> To me, the first photo (DSCN3642a) looks quite a bit like a number of

> the Red-winged Blackbirds currently being seen in my backyard in

> Ellensburg, WA not far north (50 miles as the, errr Blackbird flies)

> of where  photograph DSCN3642a was taken.  In particular, the coloring

> on the bottom of the epaulets of the folded wing (major coverts, I

> believe) are a distinct creamy white on the birds in my yard, and I

> would argue also on the photo linked to earlier.

>

> 	Assuming that, aside from the white on the epaulets, bill shape and

>

> primary projection are the other two major identifying criteria for

> Tricolored Blackbird, I'd say that the bill in the photograph is quite

> pointy, but I don't know if that's useful in isolation, and the

> primary projection isn't easy to judge in the photo.

>

>   	My questions are, does anyone think any of these are Tricolored

> Blackbirds, and what are some useful diagnostic criteria for

> identifying lone Tricolored males in flocks of Red-winged Blackbirds

> (if that is even a common occurrence).

>

> Thanks,

> Walter Szeliga

> Ellensburg, WA

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Walter,

I'm not seeing anything that would make me think that this male blackbird is a Tricolored. The orangish cast to the red part of the epaulet, combined with the yellow to cream-colored tips of the epaulet strikes me as the typical pattern shown by many of the Red-winged Blackbirds that I see in the Pacific Northwest.

Here in Oregon, we've had a couple of recent online threads about Red-winged vs. Tricolored ID. In addition to looking at lots of photos and reading some good articles on this topic, I queried both Alvara Jaramillo and Peter Pyle about some of the variation that I've seen in young males and females. In addition to providing some great firsthand feedback, they pointed me to other authoritative articles on this topic. One was written by Phil Unitt, who manages the avian collection at the San Diego Museum of Natural History. He pointed out that if one wants to see how much one species can vary in appearance geographically, they need look no further than Red-winged Blackbird.

I summarized what I learned in a short photo essay/ID discussion piece on this topic that is published in the BirdFellow Journal (online).

http://www.birdfellow.com/jour...

Dave IronsPortland, OR





> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 20:48:10 -0700

> From: walter.szeliga@GMAIL.COM

> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification

> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

>

> Dear IDers,

> 	There has recently been a handful of reports of Tricolored Blackbirds

> in south central Washington State, on the dry, east side of the

> Cascades, but west of known breeding localities in Washington.  These

> birds are typically singletons in large flocks of Red-winged

> Blackbirds.  Some have been photographed and many who see them report

> that they sound different than the surrounding Red-winged Blackbirds.

> My experience with mixed Red-winged and Tricolored flocks in northern

> Los Angeles County were nearly always aided by the large flock size

> (of both types), their self-segregation, and quite distinct

> vocalizations.  In isolation, the crispness of the white on male

> Tricolored's was often obvious, but not always.  In addition, the

> crispness of the white started to disappear and overlap with faded

> yellow on the Red-winged Blackbirds by Summer.

> 	Here is a link to at least one of the photos:

>

> http://www.granstrand.net/gall...

>

> Two more photos from a bird with much whiter epaulets at the same

> location:

>

> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S14064687

>

> To me, the first photo (DSCN3642a) looks quite a bit like a number of

> the Red-winged Blackbirds currently being seen in my backyard in

> Ellensburg, WA not far north (50 miles as the, errr Blackbird flies)

> of where  photograph DSCN3642a was taken.  In particular, the coloring

> on the bottom of the epaulets of the folded wing (major coverts, I

> believe) are a distinct creamy white on the birds in my yard, and I

> would argue also on the photo linked to earlier.

>

> 	Assuming that, aside from the white on the epaulets, bill shape and

> primary projection are the other two major identifying criteria for

> Tricolored Blackbird, I'd say that the bill in the photograph is quite

> pointy, but I don't know if that's useful in isolation, and the

> primary projection isn't easy to judge in the photo.

>

>   	My questions are, does anyone think any of these are Tricolored

> Blackbirds, and what are some useful diagnostic criteria for

> identifying lone Tricolored males in flocks of Red-winged Blackbirds

> (if that is even a common occurrence).

>

> Thanks,

> Walter Szeliga

> Ellensburg, WA

>

> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Walter



  Outside of range, if you are not detailing the specifics of the wing

formula, color of any retained edging on upperparts, assessment of

iridescence, bill shape, or comparative color of the red in the epaulet, the

only way to go is voice. The vocalizations are absolutely diagnostic and are

not a tad different, but exceedingly different. A well heard Tricolored

Blackbird will sound so un-redwing like that it should be pretty well a

sealed deal. It would be good to record the bird on video with a cell phone

to have the voice for others to listen to.

  The first photo is a Red-winged based on the bits you mention, also a

relatively thick bill. The second might be a Tricolored, it looks pretty

good, but the photos are not good enough to know for sure.

  There are no known hybrids between these two species, they breed side by

side in various spots so they have plenty of chances to hybridize but they

do not. I have yet to see any bird that seemed intermediate in the field,

with the caveat that they are similar looking, so a hybrid would be

difficult to spot...although in fall when differences are heightened it

should be doable with good views.



Good birding,



Alvaro



Alvaro Jaramillo

alvaro@alvarosadventures.com

www.alvarosadventures.com



-----Original Message-----

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification

[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Walter Szeliga

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:48 PM

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Tricolored Blackbird Identification



Dear IDers,

	There has recently been a handful of reports of Tricolored

Blackbirds

in south central Washington State, on the dry, east side of the

Cascades, but west of known breeding localities in Washington.  These

birds are typically singletons in large flocks of Red-winged

Blackbirds.  Some have been photographed and many who see them report

that they sound different than the surrounding Red-winged Blackbirds.

My experience with mixed Red-winged and Tricolored flocks in northern

Los Angeles County were nearly always aided by the large flock size

(of both types), their self-segregation, and quite distinct

vocalizations.  In isolation, the crispness of the white on male

Tricolored's was often obvious, but not always.  In addition, the

crispness of the white started to disappear and overlap with faded

yellow on the Red-winged Blackbirds by Summer.

	Here is a link to at least one of the photos:



http://www.granstrand.net/gall...



Two more photos from a bird with much whiter epaulets at the same

location:



http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S14064687



To me, the first photo (DSCN3642a) looks quite a bit like a number of

the Red-winged Blackbirds currently being seen in my backyard in

Ellensburg, WA not far north (50 miles as the, errr Blackbird flies)

of where  photograph DSCN3642a was taken.  In particular, the coloring

on the bottom of the epaulets of the folded wing (major coverts, I

believe) are a distinct creamy white on the birds in my yard, and I

would argue also on the photo linked to earlier.



	Assuming that, aside from the white on the epaulets, bill shape and



primary projection are the other two major identifying criteria for

Tricolored Blackbird, I'd say that the bill in the photograph is quite

pointy, but I don't know if that's useful in isolation, and the

primary projection isn't easy to judge in the photo.



  	My questions are, does anyone think any of these are Tricolored

Blackbirds, and what are some useful diagnostic criteria for

identifying lone Tricolored males in flocks of Red-winged Blackbirds

(if that is even a common occurrence).



Thanks,

Walter Szeliga

Ellensburg, WA



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Dear IDers,

	There has recently been a handful of reports of Tricolored Blackbirds

in south central Washington State, on the dry, east side of the

Cascades, but west of known breeding localities in Washington.  These

birds are typically singletons in large flocks of Red-winged

Blackbirds.  Some have been photographed and many who see them report

that they sound different than the surrounding Red-winged Blackbirds.

My experience with mixed Red-winged and Tricolored flocks in northern

Los Angeles County were nearly always aided by the large flock size

(of both types), their self-segregation, and quite distinct

vocalizations.  In isolation, the crispness of the white on male

Tricolored's was often obvious, but not always.  In addition, the

crispness of the white started to disappear and overlap with faded

yellow on the Red-winged Blackbirds by Summer.

	Here is a link to at least one of the photos:



http://www.granstrand.net/gall...



Two more photos from a bird with much whiter epaulets at the same

location:



http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S14064687



To me, the first photo (DSCN3642a) looks quite a bit like a number of

the Red-winged Blackbirds currently being seen in my backyard in

Ellensburg, WA not far north (50 miles as the, errr Blackbird flies)

of where  photograph DSCN3642a was taken.  In particular, the coloring

on the bottom of the epaulets of the folded wing (major coverts, I

believe) are a distinct creamy white on the birds in my yard, and I

would argue also on the photo linked to earlier.



	Assuming that, aside from the white on the epaulets, bill shape and

primary projection are the other two major identifying criteria for

Tricolored Blackbird, I'd say that the bill in the photograph is quite

pointy, but I don't know if that's useful in isolation, and the

primary projection isn't easy to judge in the photo.



  	My questions are, does anyone think any of these are Tricolored

Blackbirds, and what are some useful diagnostic criteria for

identifying lone Tricolored males in flocks of Red-winged Blackbirds

(if that is even a common occurrence).



Thanks,

Walter Szeliga

Ellensburg, WA



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Greetings All,

Just this past week we had a report that may well represent Oregon's first Chimney Swift. Poor quality images show a silhouetted swift that is proportionally longer-tailed and longer-winged than my notion of Vaux's Swift. The bird was seen at a swift roost by Matt Hunter who is both an experienced and extremely cautious observer. He first noted that the bird seemed larger and darker than the many Vaux's it was with and then also heard calls that did not fit Vaux's and matched Chimney.

In looking at the series of images shared by Michael Hilchey, the paler bird (suspected Vaux's) appears to be shorter-tailed and shorter-winged than the banking Chimney Swift in the last image. Additionally, the rump seems much paler than what I can recall seeing on Chimney Swift, but this is a species that I haven't seen often in recent years. If I were to see this swift in my neck of the woods (where Vaux's are common), I would have no hesitation in calling it a Vaux's, as both the coloration and overall proportions seem right.

Dave IronsPortland, OR





Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:21:59 -0600

From: leucosticte@GMAIL.COM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Chaetura Swfits

To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU



Hi all,

Last week (May 12th), several Chaetura Swifts were seen at different locations in Albuquerque, NM. Two of these birds, seen at the same location, were photographed (see link below) by Dave Krueper. The darker bird shows all the characteristics of a Chimney Swift and was heard clearly by at least one observer. The other bird appears much paler, subtly different in structure, and by at one observer's comment was "slightly smaller"



Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/q...

Can anyone confidently ID the second bird as a Vaux's Swift, or is this individual within the range of variation for Chimney Swift?



Cheers and good birding!Michael HilcheyHigh Desert Birding Adventureswww.highdesertbirding.com

(505) 228-7439



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv... 		 	   		

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Hi all,



Last week (May 12th), several Chaetura Swifts were seen at different

locations in Albuquerque, NM. Two of these birds, seen at the same

location, were photographed (see link below) by Dave Krueper. The darker

bird shows all the characteristics of a Chimney Swift and was heard clearly

by at least one observer. The other bird appears much paler, subtly

different in structure, and by at one observer's comment was "slightly

smaller"



Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/q...



Can anyone confidently ID the second bird as a Vaux's Swift, or is this

individual within the range of variation for Chimney Swift?



Cheers and good birding!

Michael Hilchey

High Desert Birding Adventures

www.highdesertbirding.com

(505) 228-7439



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

I am looking for reliable ways of identifying a Meadowlark that was non-vocal and appeared well outside its usual migration time.  Could someone point me in the direction of someone or resources I might access to help with the identification?



Sincerely,

Don Cecile

Vernon, BC



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...