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Updated on February 5, 2018, 10:35 pm

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05 Feb: @ 22:30:44 Re: Buteo ID Help [Hal Mitchell]
05 Feb: @ 10:42:25 Re: Buteo ID Help [Brian Sullivan]
04 Feb: @ 13:59:07  Buteo ID Help [Hal Mitchell]





Subject: Buteo ID Help
Date: Mon Feb 5 2018 22:30 pm
From: halmitchell AT gmail.com
 
Thanks a ton Brian.  Very interesting concept on the Swainson™s x Harlan™s theory and I can only hope the bird sticks around for a second photo op.  I wanted to touch on a couple of other field marks I noticed that further supports a Harlan™s ID.  For immature Harlan™s the light colored iris almost always contrasts well in decent light (I think I can see hints of a light iris in the photos).  Another thing I started to notice after looking through several hundred short-tailed hawk pics is that they, in fact, appear to have short-tails!  I found it helpful to compare the feet in relation to the under tail coverts.  In most of the photos I saw short-tails feet extend nearly to the edge of their under tail coverts (https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... , https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... , and https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... ) compared to Harlan™s/red-tailed hawks which usually fall a fair bit short of their under tail coverts (https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... , https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... , and https://macaulaylibrary.org/as... ).  I™m sure this feature isn™t new to everyone but I thought I would share.  

Thanks again,

Hal

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Brian Sullivan wrote:
>
> Hi Hal,
>
> These are really interesting birds, but neither is a Short-tailed Hawk for a variety of reasons, including shape, tail pattern, flight feather pattern, etc. The more solidly dark bird is a good example of a fairly classic dark-morph Harlan's juvenile. Note the banded outer primaries, and the broadly-banded secondaries, as well as the blobby tips to the secondaries and tail feathers. Juv dark Harlan's and juv dark Short-tailed basically have plumages that overlap broadly, and they are frequently confused.
>
> Your other bird, however, is much more interesting. It's clearly got Harlan's Red-tailed Hawk in it, and it's possible that it's a very unusual example of a juvenile intermediate Harlan's without dark patagials. I've only seen this once before on a light juv Harlan's, though Jerry Liguori has a few other examples of this on both light and intermediate juvs. Here are photos of a light morph that is quite exceptional in this regard:
>
> https://ebird.org/view/checkli...
>
> https://ebird.org/view/checkli...
>
> https://ebird.org/view/checkli...
>
> Your bird's head pattern and partial bib look very similar to a juvenile Swainson's Hawk though. I wonder if this could be a Swainson's x Harlan's hybrid? I shared these photos with a few others and they had the same thought about possible hybrid parentage. I could see a Swainson's wandering around AK and making this pairing work. If possible, it would be great to try to refind this bird and document it better, though I know that's a tall order out in the Delta where these birds move a lot.
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Hal Mitchell > wrote:
> Hey ID Frontiers,
>
> I am hoping the collective knowledge here can help me ID a couple dark-morph buteos I saw in north Mississippi yesterday. As I was watching a red-tailed hawk through my scope I noticed it was looking at something above it. As I glanced up I noticed 2 dark-morph buteos circling over my head. The lighting was not too good but what I saw in the field and the photos has me a bit confused. At the risk of influencing others, I noticed smallish hawks circle soaring together, the lighter of the 2 had no noticeable patagial bars, the darker one had a noticeable bib, and the tails were very banded. I also think I see contrast between the primaries and secondaries.
>
> A couple of things to consider, the Mississippi Alluvial Valley is lousy with all kinds of crazy red-tailed hawks in the winter and some of them are hard to recognize as such (https://ebird.org/view/checkli... > & https://ebird.org/view/checkli... >). Broad-winged hawks are not unheard of in the winter here with eBird showing a few regional occurrences in Jan-Feb. Going way way out on a limb here I think these birds may be short-tailed hawks but I am not confident enough to call it on my own. I still have the RAW image files if someone who is better at image editing wants to take a crack at trying to bring more detail out on the dark bird. Photos of the birds can be found at: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdDY3ob >
>
> Any insight or comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Hope all is well,
>
> Hal Mitchell
> Southaven, MS
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
>
>
> --
> ===========
> Brian L. Sullivan
>
> eBird Project Leader
> www.ebird.org
>
> Photo Editor
> Birds of North America Online
> http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/B...
> -------------------------------


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Buteo ID Help
Date: Mon Feb 5 2018 10:42 am
From: heraldpetrel AT gmail.com
 
Hi Hal,

These are really interesting birds, but neither is a Short-tailed Hawk for
a variety of reasons, including shape, tail pattern, flight feather
pattern, etc. The more solidly dark bird is a good example of a fairly
classic dark-morph Harlan's juvenile. Note the banded outer primaries, and
the broadly-banded secondaries, as well as the blobby tips to the
secondaries and tail feathers. Juv dark Harlan's and juv dark Short-tailed
basically have plumages that overlap broadly, and they are frequently
confused.

Your other bird, however, is much more interesting. It's clearly got
Harlan's Red-tailed Hawk in it, and it's possible that it's a very unusual
example of a juvenile intermediate Harlan's without dark patagials. I've
only seen this once before on a light juv Harlan's, though Jerry Liguori
has a few other examples of this on both light and intermediate juvs. Here
are photos of a light morph that is quite exceptional in this regard:

https://ebird.org/view/checkli...

https://ebird.org/view/checkli...

https://ebird.org/view/checkli...

Your bird's head pattern and partial bib look very similar to a juvenile
Swainson's Hawk though. I wonder if this could be a Swainson's x Harlan's
hybrid? I shared these photos with a few others and they had the same
thought about possible hybrid parentage. I could see a Swainson's wandering
around AK and making this pairing work. If possible, it would be great to
try to refind this bird and document it better, though I know that's a tall
order out in the Delta where these birds move a lot.

Thanks

Brian

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Hal Mitchell wrote:

> Hey ID Frontiers,
>
> I am hoping the collective knowledge here can help me ID a couple
> dark-morph buteos I saw in north Mississippi yesterday. As I was watching
> a red-tailed hawk through my scope I noticed it was looking at something
> above it. As I glanced up I noticed 2 dark-morph buteos circling over my
> head. The lighting was not too good but what I saw in the field and the
> photos has me a bit confused. At the risk of influencing others, I noticed
> smallish hawks circle soaring together, the lighter of the 2 had no
> noticeable patagial bars, the darker one had a noticeable bib, and the
> tails were very banded. I also think I see contrast between the primaries
> and secondaries.
>
> A couple of things to consider, the Mississippi Alluvial Valley is lousy
> with all kinds of crazy red-tailed hawks in the winter and some of them are
> hard to recognize as such (https://ebird.org/view/checkli... <
> https://ebird.org/view/checkli... & https://ebird.org/view/
> checklist/S42453083 ).
> Broad-winged hawks are not unheard of in the winter here with eBird showing
> a few regional occurrences in Jan-Feb. Going way way out on a limb here I
> think these birds may be short-tailed hawks but I am not confident enough
> to call it on my own. I still have the RAW image files if someone who is
> better at image editing wants to take a crack at trying to bring more
> detail out on the dark bird. Photos of the birds can be found at:
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdDY3ob
>
> Any insight or comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Hope all is well,
>
> Hal Mitchell
> Southaven, MS
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
==========

*Brian L. SullivaneBird Project Leader *
www.ebird.org

*Photo Editor*
Birds of North America Online
http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/B...
-------------------------------

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Buteo ID Help
Date: Sun Feb 4 2018 13:59 pm
From: halmitchell AT gmail.com
 
Hey ID Frontiers,

I am hoping the collective knowledge here can help me ID a couple dark-morph buteos I saw in north Mississippi yesterday. As I was watching a red-tailed hawk through my scope I noticed it was looking at something above it. As I glanced up I noticed 2 dark-morph buteos circling over my head. The lighting was not too good but what I saw in the field and the photos has me a bit confused. At the risk of influencing others, I noticed smallish hawks circle soaring together, the lighter of the 2 had no noticeable patagial bars, the darker one had a noticeable bib, and the tails were very banded. I also think I see contrast between the primaries and secondaries.

A couple of things to consider, the Mississippi Alluvial Valley is lousy with all kinds of crazy red-tailed hawks in the winter and some of them are hard to recognize as such (https://ebird.org/view/checkli... & https://ebird.org/view/checkli... ). Broad-winged hawks are not unheard of in the winter here with eBird showing a few regional occurrences in Jan-Feb. Going way way out on a limb here I think these birds may be short-tailed hawks but I am not confident enough to call it on my own. I still have the RAW image files if someone who is better at image editing wants to take a crack at trying to bring more detail out on the dark bird. Photos of the birds can be found at: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdDY3ob

Any insight or comments are greatly appreciated.

Hope all is well,

Hal Mitchell
Southaven, MS
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


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