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Updated on January 25, 2015, 1:05 am

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25 Jan: @ 01:00:40 Re: Brown-capped Rosy-Finches in Utah [Tony Leukering]
24 Jan: @ 21:12:19  Brown-capped Rosy-Finches in Utah [Tim Avery]
22 Jan: @ 16:04:28  Additional photos of presumed Kelp Gull [Ben Coulter]
22 Jan: @ 11:50:18  Presumed Kelp Gull-Pennsylvania [Ben Coulter]
21 Jan: @ 02:24:45  On human cognitive bias, birds and light, and image forensics [Mike O'Keeffe]
20 Jan: @ 21:39:43  Black Terns with pink flush, brown belly & subterminal tail bands [Mark B Bartosik]
19 Jan: @ 19:54:54  Barn Swallow With Brown Back [David Roemer]
18 Jan: @ 05:32:46 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [David Irons]
18 Jan: @ 01:46:29 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
17 Jan: @ 21:13:52 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [David Irons]
17 Jan: @ 19:41:50 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
17 Jan: @ 18:49:13 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [Angus Wilson]
17 Jan: @ 17:12:15 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
17 Jan: @ 16:28:26 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [David Irons]
17 Jan: @ 15:49:38 Re: Barn Swallow with brown back? [Alvaro Jaramillo]
17 Jan: @ 15:07:54  Barn Swallow with brown back? [Wayne Weber]
13 Jan: @ 19:11:07 Re: Brant ID problems [Lethaby, Nick]
13 Jan: @ 17:37:02 Re: Brant confusion [whoffman]
13 Jan: @ 17:14:44 Re: Brant ID problems [Paul Lehman]
13 Jan: @ 13:31:33 Re: Brant confusion [Tristan McKee]
13 Jan: @ 12:35:35  Brant confusion [Alvaro Jaramillo]
11 Jan: @ 21:39:35  NY Grosbeak [David Wheeler]
11 Jan: @ 18:21:53  A couple of odd Juncos from Oregon [David Irons]
10 Jan: @ 11:32:24 Re: AZ Sapsucker [Matthew G Hunter]
10 Jan: @ 00:19:20 Re: AZ Sapsucker [David Irons]
09 Jan: @ 17:50:33 Re: AZ Sapsucker [Kimball Garrett]
09 Jan: @ 15:10:41 Re: AZ Sapsucker [Peter Pyle]
09 Jan: @ 10:46:33 Re: AZ Sapsucker [Lethaby, Nick]
09 Jan: @ 02:16:26 Re: AZ Sapsucker [David Irons]
08 Jan: @ 22:19:57  AZ Sapsucker [Matthew G Hunter]
03 Jan: @ 15:33:54  Unusual small, black legged peep at Sal delRey, Hidalgo County, TX, 1/3/15 [Dan Jones]
30 Dec: @ 16:35:15 Re: Glaucous Gull (subspecies barrovianus) Winter Range? [Lethaby, Nick]
30 Dec: @ 15:58:35  Glaucous Gull (subspecies barrovianus) Winter Range? [Jean Iron]
28 Dec: @ 09:29:12 Re: RFI: Strange Bird Call [Noah Arthur]
27 Dec: @ 06:19:06 Re: RFI: Strange Bird Call [Michael Price]
26 Dec: @ 18:30:58 Re: RFI: Strange Bird Call [Dick Cannings]
26 Dec: @ 04:17:34  RFI: Strange Bird Call [Michael Price]
24 Dec: @ 14:56:53 Re: [BIRDW G01] Nobo dy else ha d the ball s to do it . [christian artuso]
24 Dec: @ 13:15:06 Re: Nobody else had the balls to do it . [Blake Maybank]
24 Dec: @ 12:26:31  Nobody else had the balls to do it. [Michael D. Collins]





Subject: Brown-capped Rosy-Finches in Utah
Date: Sun Jan 25 2015 1:00 am
From: greatgrayowl AT aol.com
 
 Hey Tim:

It's not often that rosies come up for discussion on this venue, so I think you for this!

First off, though it has a different focus, a paper on odd-plumaged Brown-cappeds that can shed some light on the UT birds can be found here:

http://cobirds.org/CFO/Colorad...

Second, I wonder what your source for "I know Black and Brown-capped do hybridize where they overlap" is. Brown-capped Rosy-Finch is virtually a Colorado breeding endemic (the Wyoming and New Mexico breeding populations are extremely restricted and small) and the state has no records of Black Rosy-Finch breeding. Though I don't know what's going on in the La Salle Mtns. across the border in Utah, that range seems the most logical place for the two species to meet, as one can see the La Salles from Lone Cone, which supports breeding Brown-cappeds.

I'm happy with your bird and the first three of the "adults" from Utah as Brown-capped Rosy-Finches. I believe that the fourth "adult" is not a Brown-capped and probably not an adult (see discussion of rosy ageing in cited paper, above). The brown of that bird's plumage is identical in tone to that of the nearby Gray-crowneds and, despite the odd head pattern, I feel that Gray-crowned may be a more comfortable fit for it.

Many immature Brown-cappeds (mostly/all females??) are most notable by their lack of field marks, being a very boring grayish-tannish-brown all over, often with little in the way of head pattern. The bird(s) depicted in the third and fourth links to "young birds" have distinct gray sides to the black crown patch, which, I believe, is outside the range of variation for Brown-capped; I'd suggest immature female Black as a more-suitable ID (though one might invoke the "h" word, too). The first two pix seem to be of the same individual (and different from the bird(s) in the fourth and fifth pix as discerned by less-distinct gray in the crown/superciliary and whiter -- vs. pinker -- wing-covert edging) may well be Brown-cappeds, with the apparently colder tone and extensive pale fringing to the body plumage being, perhaps, the best characters.

Our work color-banding 1000s of rosy-finches in Colorado has produced just one recovery (of a Gray-crowned) outside the state (from Wyoming in spring). Our within-Colorado re-sightings and recaptures of banded Brown-cappeds have all come from locations in the same ranges in which they were banded. In fact, if it weren't for the large numbers regularly found at Sandia Crest, NM (well away from known breeding range), in winter, I'd think the species hardly migrated at all, other than the regular up-and-downhill movements that we've documented.

Tony




Tony Leukering
Largo, FL

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...

http://aba.org/photoquiz/





-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Avery
To: BIRDWG01
Sent: Sat, Jan 24, 2015 9:05 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Brown-capped Rosy-Finches in Utah


This winter that have been an unprecedented number of reports of
Brown-capped Rosy-Finches along the Wasatch Front in Salt Lake
County--prior to this winter the species had never been reported on the
west edge of the Rockies here--with one report from extreme southeast Utah
several winters ago, in a location this species is suspected to winter with
some frequency. This isn't neccessarily and ID-F type question but the
information I am seeking seems limited and I can't find any good
resources--so keep readin if interested.

The reports in Salt Lake vary with as many as 4 apparently "different"
birders, 2 young, and 2 different adults. Up till today I was 0 for 4 on
locating any said birds, but did take shots of what appears to be an
apparent adult Brown-capped Rosy-Finch:

http://www.timaverybirding.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&
pid=14560#top_display_media

This bird does appear to be different from the other reported adults from
the area:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

And here are the young birds:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

I'll hold my full opinion on some of these birds but 1st, is are all these
Brown-capped?

And if so I guess one major question I have is in the realm of the H
word. Is it possible to rule out any of the species, or a possible hybrid?


And what would that even look like?

I know Black and Brown-capped do hybridize where they overlap, and I would
assume if these birds are Brown-capped they are coming from the northern
end of the range.

I've kept mum on this locally because my experience with Brown-capped is
limited to one Colorado encounter nearly 15 years ago. There hasn't been
much discussion from parties that know the species well, and that may just
be that no one locally really does. There has been some input from staff
at RMBO on one of the birds that thought it was a safe bet for Brown-capped.

Given this species patterns of vagrancy northern Utah isn't the most likely
location for multiple individuals to show up and I think everyone here is a
little surprised.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Brown-capped Rosy-Finches in Utah
Date: Sat Jan 24 2015 21:12 pm
From: western.tanager AT gmail.com
 
This winter that have been an unprecedented number of reports of
Brown-capped Rosy-Finches along the Wasatch Front in Salt Lake
County--prior to this winter the species had never been reported on the
west edge of the Rockies here--with one report from extreme southeast Utah
several winters ago, in a location this species is suspected to winter with
some frequency. This isn't neccessarily and ID-F type question but the
information I am seeking seems limited and I can't find any good
resources--so keep readin if interested.

The reports in Salt Lake vary with as many as 4 apparently "different"
birders, 2 young, and 2 different adults. Up till today I was 0 for 4 on
locating any said birds, but did take shots of what appears to be an
apparent adult Brown-capped Rosy-Finch:

http://www.timaverybirding.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0
pid560#top_display_media

This bird does appear to be different from the other reported adults from
the area:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

And here are the young birds:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

I'll hold my full opinion on some of these birds but 1st, is are all these
Brown-capped?

And if so I guess one major question I have is in the realm of the H
word. Is it possible to rule out any of the species, or a possible hybrid?


And what would that even look like?

I know Black and Brown-capped do hybridize where they overlap, and I would
assume if these birds are Brown-capped they are coming from the northern
end of the range.

I've kept mum on this locally because my experience with Brown-capped is
limited to one Colorado encounter nearly 15 years ago. There hasn't been
much discussion from parties that know the species well, and that may just
be that no one locally really does. There has been some input from staff
at RMBO on one of the birds that thought it was a safe bet for Brown-capped.

Given this species patterns of vagrancy northern Utah isn't the most likely
location for multiple individuals to show up and I think everyone here is a
little surprised.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Additional photos of presumed Kelp Gull
Date: Thu Jan 22 2015 16:04 pm
From: anax_longipes AT yahoo.com
 
Hi all,
Regarding the previous post about the putative Kelp Gull from Pennsylvania, Tom Moeller now has his photos online as well:https://picasaweb.google.com/1...
 I believe they were taken at the same time and location as Daniel Weeks' photos in the last post.
Cheers,Ben CoulterPittsburgh, PAhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/...


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Presumed Kelp Gull-Pennsylvania
Date: Thu Jan 22 2015 11:50 am
From: anax_longipes AT yahoo.com
 
Hi all,
It's been quite a while since there was a gull identification discussion on this list. My apologies in advance to the larophobes.
On January 17, 2015, I found a large, dark-mantled gull on the Ohio River in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania that appears to be a Kelp Gull. It was similar in size to American Herring Gulls present (perhaps marginally larger), but probably also acceptable for a very small female Great Black-backed. The bird showed a clean white head with pale iris and stout yellow bill with reddish-orange gonydeal spot, mantle color at least as dark as Great Black-backed, a small white mirror on P10, no mirror on P9, wide white trailing edge to secondaries and thick white tertial crescent, short primary projection, and long, pale yellowish-pink or orangish legs and feet. My primary concern for Kelp Gull was that the leg color was not cold greenish-gray or yellow, but showed a hint of warmer color. I now suspect this may be within the range of variation for Kelp Gull, and some subsequent photos of the bird show more yellowish legs than my own photos.
Commentary on Facebook has generally been supportive of the identification of Kelp Gull, but a few people have expressed reservations about the leg color. I was hoping to solicit additional opinions, especially by those with extensive experience with the species. On or off-list is fine.
My initial, somewhat distant photos, and a video showing the wing pattern, are at:https://www.flickr.com/photos/...sets/72157650012667518/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Daniel Weeks and Tom Moeller photographed the gull as it preened the following day. They were somewhat closer to the bird. Daniel's photos can be viewed here:https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Cheers,Ben CoulterPittsburgh, PAhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/somatochlora/


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: On human cognitive bias, birds and light, and image forensics
Date: Wed Jan 21 2015 2:24 am
From: okeeffeml AT eircom.net
 
All,



Members of this list may find some recent postings of interest.



FORENSICS / BIRDS AND LIGHT

Lighting and Avian Anatomy

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Lighting and Bareparts

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Underexposure

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Artefacts

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

White Balance

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Lighting and Perspective

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Defocus

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Colour Sample Homogeneity – a technique using the Gaussian Blur Tool

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

High Dynamic Range Imaging

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Lighting in Arid and Semiarid Areas

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Lighting in Snow and Ice

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Winter Solstice

http://birdingimagequalitytool...



HUMAN COGNITIVE BIAS AND BIRD IDENTIFICATION

An Introduction

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Distraction

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Memory Bias

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Evaluation Bias

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

The Self and the Group

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Experimental Bias

http://birdingimagequalitytool...

Ten Tips

http://birdingimagequalitytool...



A QUICK DIGITAL IMAGING REFERENCE GUIDE

http://birdingimagequalitytool...





Regards



Mike O’Keeffe

Ireland



http://birdingimagequalitytool...










Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Black Terns with pink flush, brown belly & subterminal tail bands
Date: Tue Jan 20 2015 21:39 pm
From: MBB22222 AT aol.com
 
Hi All,

I was reading with great interest posts about barn swallow winter plumages.
Although for some time I plan to post about Black Tern winter plumages
that are not matching traits published in scientific papers (and of course
these in bird guides as well) I still do not have photos ready yet so I
decided that I will start with some aberrant individuals and example of one
individual that I think shows pink flush in white feathers. Of course I will
appreciate opinions and sharing info on any similar records; or negative
records (about pink flush) from those who have opportunity to observe BLTE in
large numbers.

BTW I collect examples of BLTE plumages during different seasons for some
time now and as they are often showing around here (Texas) in flocks of
thousands and almost every individual bird shows some differences from others
it is easy to grow a huge collection of photos. I lost count long time ago.

Here are photo examples of birds I mentioned above:

1 - Brown-reddish belly – interesting individual that might have some
melanin reduction in some parts of black feather tracks.
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image...

2 - Pink flush – some areas of neck and forehead white feathers sport pink
flush that I believe is related to diet of this particular individual. Many
gulls, skimmers and terns sport this phenomena (proven to be diet related;
e.g. Elegant Tern) on seasonal basis but some (e.g. Royal Tern, personal
observation) only sporadically and only by very few individuals. I am not
aware of any BLTE published record nor I ever seen before BLTE with pink
flash. I was taking under consideration possible stain as well but it seems, to
me, that this is rather unlikely and flush from ingested carotenoids could
be a more plausible cause.
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image...

3 – Tail (and uppertail coverts) with few rows of bands - HY. I have seen
some single tail feathers in other birds that shown anomalies (with abnormal
pigment distribution) but never something like that (pattern symmetry in
all feathers) in bird that ‘normally’ have solid colored tail. As you can
see both, tail and uppertail covert feathers are showing the same aberrant
pattern.
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image...


Cheers,

Mark B Bartosik
Houston, Texas



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Barn Swallow With Brown Back
Date: Mon Jan 19 2015 19:54 pm
From: dlroemer AT yahoo.com
 
Two Barn Swallows were present at a body of water during January, 2003 in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky.  One exhibited typical plumage while the other was brown and white, lacking the blue iridescent upperparts and buffy underparts.  This led to some discussion among observers as to the identification.  I was able to obtain video through my scope which showed white spots in the tail confirming the ID as a Barn Swallow.  I have placed 6 stills lifted from the video in a gallery which may be accessed by the link below.  Please pardon the poor quality of the images.     
https://www.flickr.com/photos/... L. RoemerBowling Green, Ky.
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sun Jan 18 2015 5:32 am
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
Alvaro, 

You will get no argument from me on that point.

Dave

> From: chucao@coastside.net
> To: llsdirons@MSN.COM; BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 23:19:25 -0800
>
> Dave
>
> If the speculation is that they come from the Argentine breeding
> population, that makes no sense. They should be breeding right now in
> mid-winter. George Armistead and I saw a Barn Swallow in mid primary molt at
> Chincoteague last summer. Now that makes more sense for an Argentine
> breeder.
>
> Alvaro
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
> alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
> www.alvarosadventures.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 6:53 PM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
>
> Angus,
>
> I can't recall any out of season (Nov-Mar) Bank Swallow reports from Oregon
> and Washington. I just looked at Birds of Washington (Wahl et al. Eds. 2005)
> and Birds of Oregon: A General Reference (Marshall et al. Eds 2003). BOW
> lists one January record from e. Washington, but there are no details other
> than the date and location. Perhaps Steve Mlodinow knows the background of
> this record. BOGR makes no mention of Bank Swallows in Oregon after the late
> date of 8 October. The editors of the Oregon book normally at least
> mentioned undocumented reports in their text, so I suspect that they either
> didn't find any or found such reports to be wholly without merit.
>
> Mid-winter Barn Swallows, formerly extremely rare in the PNW, are now being
> detected annually and in some numbers from central California north to
> southwestern British Columbia. There has been some interesting speculation
> about the source population of these birds.
>
> Dave Irons
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:47:00 -0500
> > From: oceanwanderers@GMAIL.COM
> > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >
> > Wayne, thanks for sharing this and for Alvaro and David for
> > instructive responses.
> >
> > In addition to the brown upperparts, it's easy to imagine the lack of
> > color on the throat would also throw a lot of birders off the scent,
> > at least those residing in the northern hemisphere. It's fortunate
> > that the observer in this example included photos, although I'm
> > surprised he was not more troubled by the projecting outer tail
> > feathers. Perhaps if you've already mentally dismissed Barn Swallow these
> might not register as an issue.
> >
> > I'll throw out a broader question. Are there other examples of winter
> > 'bank swallow' being reported in the Pacific NW without photos that
> > might also be reinterpreted as lingering Barn Swallows? This could be
> > a recurring error because popular Nearctic (e.g. Sibley) and W
> > Palearctic (e.g. Mullarney et
> > al) guides only depict darker birds with a more discernable reddish
> > wash to the throat and feathering above the bill.
> >
> > Angus Wilson
> > New York, USA
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Wayne Weber wrote:
> >
> > > Birders,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen
> > > and photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the
> > > Canadian border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one
> > > observer in his eBird checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> > > http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with
> > > the approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified
> > > as a Bank Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this
> > > was a very dull immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other
> > > reports of Barn Swallows in nearby areas around this time.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think
> > > that this is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow
> > > which seems to be almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on
> > > the back? If it is a Barn Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this
> dull.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wayne C. Weber
> > >
> > > Delta, BC, Canada
> > >
> > > contopus@telus.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Angus Wilson
> > New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
> > http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sun Jan 18 2015 1:46 am
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Dave

If the speculation is that they come from the Argentine breeding
population, that makes no sense. They should be breeding right now in
mid-winter. George Armistead and I saw a Barn Swallow in mid primary molt at
Chincoteague last summer. Now that makes more sense for an Argentine
breeder.

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 6:53 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?

Angus,

I can't recall any out of season (Nov-Mar) Bank Swallow reports from Oregon
and Washington. I just looked at Birds of Washington (Wahl et al. Eds. 2005)
and Birds of Oregon: A General Reference (Marshall et al. Eds 2003). BOW
lists one January record from e. Washington, but there are no details other
than the date and location. Perhaps Steve Mlodinow knows the background of
this record. BOGR makes no mention of Bank Swallows in Oregon after the late
date of 8 October. The editors of the Oregon book normally at least
mentioned undocumented reports in their text, so I suspect that they either
didn't find any or found such reports to be wholly without merit.

Mid-winter Barn Swallows, formerly extremely rare in the PNW, are now being
detected annually and in some numbers from central California north to
southwestern British Columbia. There has been some interesting speculation
about the source population of these birds.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR




> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:47:00 -0500
> From: oceanwanderers@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Wayne, thanks for sharing this and for Alvaro and David for
> instructive responses.
>
> In addition to the brown upperparts, it's easy to imagine the lack of
> color on the throat would also throw a lot of birders off the scent,
> at least those residing in the northern hemisphere. It's fortunate
> that the observer in this example included photos, although I'm
> surprised he was not more troubled by the projecting outer tail
> feathers. Perhaps if you've already mentally dismissed Barn Swallow these
might not register as an issue.
>
> I'll throw out a broader question. Are there other examples of winter
> 'bank swallow' being reported in the Pacific NW without photos that
> might also be reinterpreted as lingering Barn Swallows? This could be
> a recurring error because popular Nearctic (e.g. Sibley) and W
> Palearctic (e.g. Mullarney et
> al) guides only depict darker birds with a more discernable reddish
> wash to the throat and feathering above the bill.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York, USA
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Wayne Weber wrote:
>
> > Birders,
> >
> >
> >
> > On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen
> > and photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the
> > Canadian border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one
> > observer in his eBird checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> > http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with
> > the approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified
> > as a Bank Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this
> > was a very dull immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other
> > reports of Barn Swallows in nearby areas around this time.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think
> > that this is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow
> > which seems to be almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on
> > the back? If it is a Barn Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this
dull.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wayne C. Weber
> >
> > Delta, BC, Canada
> >
> > contopus@telus.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Angus Wilson
> New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
> http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 21:13 pm
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
Angus,

I can't recall any out of season (Nov-Mar) Bank Swallow reports from Oregon and Washington. I just looked at Birds of Washington (Wahl et al. Eds. 2005) and Birds of Oregon: A General Reference (Marshall et al. Eds 2003). BOW lists one January record from e. Washington, but there are no details other than the date and location. Perhaps Steve Mlodinow knows the background of this record. BOGR makes no mention of Bank Swallows in Oregon after the late date of 8 October. The editors of the Oregon book normally at least mentioned undocumented reports in their text, so I suspect that they either didn't find any or found such reports to be wholly without merit.

Mid-winter Barn Swallows, formerly extremely rare in the PNW, are now being detected annually and in some numbers from central California north to southwestern British Columbia. There has been some interesting speculation about the source population of these birds.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR




> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:47:00 -0500
> From: oceanwanderers@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Wayne, thanks for sharing this and for Alvaro and David for instructive
> responses.
>
> In addition to the brown upperparts, it's easy to imagine the lack of color
> on the throat would also throw a lot of birders off the scent, at least
> those residing in the northern hemisphere. It's fortunate that the observer
> in this example included photos, although I'm surprised he was not more
> troubled by the projecting outer tail feathers. Perhaps if you've already
> mentally dismissed Barn Swallow these might not register as an issue.
>
> I'll throw out a broader question. Are there other examples of winter 'bank
> swallow' being reported in the Pacific NW without photos that might also be
> reinterpreted as lingering Barn Swallows? This could be a recurring error
> because popular Nearctic (e.g. Sibley) and W Palearctic (e.g. Mullarney et
> al) guides only depict darker birds with a more discernable reddish wash to
> the throat and feathering above the bill.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York, USA
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Wayne Weber wrote:
>
> > Birders,
> >
> >
> >
> > On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen and
> > photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the Canadian
> > border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one observer in his eBird
> > checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> > http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
> > approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a Bank
> > Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a very dull
> > immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of Barn Swallows
> > in
> > nearby areas around this time.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that this
> > is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which seems to be
> > almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the back? If it is a Barn
> > Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wayne C. Weber
> >
> > Delta, BC, Canada
> >
> > contopus@telus.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Angus Wilson
> New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
> http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 19:41 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Angus et al.

I should add that in recent years, here on the central California coast we are seeing passage of northbound Barn Swallows as early as December. No one has any idea what they are doing, often it is during a rather warm day, offshore winds even better. I saw some last week going north. They are always going north, and as far as I know they are not detected in the interior, just the coast. No idea if the same issue is noted in southern California.

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Angus Wilson
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 3:47 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?

Wayne, thanks for sharing this and for Alvaro and David for instructive responses.

In addition to the brown upperparts, it's easy to imagine the lack of color on the throat would also throw a lot of birders off the scent, at least those residing in the northern hemisphere. It's fortunate that the observer in this example included photos, although I'm surprised he was not more troubled by the projecting outer tail feathers. Perhaps if you've already mentally dismissed Barn Swallow these might not register as an issue.

I'll throw out a broader question. Are there other examples of winter 'bank swallow' being reported in the Pacific NW without photos that might also be reinterpreted as lingering Barn Swallows? This could be a recurring error because popular Nearctic (e.g. Sibley) and W Palearctic (e.g. Mullarney et
al) guides only depict darker birds with a more discernable reddish wash to the throat and feathering above the bill.

Angus Wilson
New York, USA


On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Wayne Weber wrote:

> Birders,
>
>
>
> On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen
> and photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the
> Canadian border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one
> observer in his eBird checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
> approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a
> Bank Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a
> very dull immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of
> Barn Swallows in nearby areas around this time.)
>
>
>
> Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that
> this is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which
> seems to be almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the
> back? If it is a Barn Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.
>
>
>
> Wayne C. Weber
>
> Delta, BC, Canada
>
> contopus@telus.net
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
>



--
Angus Wilson
New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 18:49 pm
From: oceanwanderers AT gmail.com
 
Wayne, thanks for sharing this and for Alvaro and David for instructive
responses.

In addition to the brown upperparts, it's easy to imagine the lack of color
on the throat would also throw a lot of birders off the scent, at least
those residing in the northern hemisphere. It's fortunate that the observer
in this example included photos, although I'm surprised he was not more
troubled by the projecting outer tail feathers. Perhaps if you've already
mentally dismissed Barn Swallow these might not register as an issue.

I'll throw out a broader question. Are there other examples of winter 'bank
swallow' being reported in the Pacific NW without photos that might also be
reinterpreted as lingering Barn Swallows? This could be a recurring error
because popular Nearctic (e.g. Sibley) and W Palearctic (e.g. Mullarney et
al) guides only depict darker birds with a more discernable reddish wash to
the throat and feathering above the bill.

Angus Wilson
New York, USA


On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Wayne Weber wrote:

> Birders,
>
>
>
> On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen and
> photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the Canadian
> border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one observer in his eBird
> checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
> approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a Bank
> Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a very dull
> immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of Barn Swallows
> in
> nearby areas around this time.)
>
>
>
> Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that this
> is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which seems to be
> almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the back? If it is a Barn
> Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.
>
>
>
> Wayne C. Weber
>
> Delta, BC, Canada
>
> contopus@telus.net
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
>



--
Angus Wilson
New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 17:12 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
All

If you google in Spanish and get wintering Barn Swallow photos, you see a
lot of similar birds. I see birds like this commonly in Chile, here are
photos from Chile.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
http://www.fotonaturaleza.cl/details.php?image_id@086


Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 2:00 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?

Wayne,

I agree, this is clearly not a Bank Swallow. I further concur that it is a
Barn Swallow, although I don't recall having seen one that struck me as
being so brown on the back. I did find a similar-looking bird in an online
photo (link below), that is, ironically, mis-labeled as a Bank Swallow.
Light underwing linings, long outer retrices, lack of contrast between the
mantle and the wings and lack of dark extending down along the flanks from
the sides of the breast all point away from Bank.

http://www.liveanimalslist.com...

In the link above, scroll down to the first set of side-by-side images. The
bird on the left is a brown-backed Barn Swallow that looks quite a bit like
the Point Roberts bird.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR



> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:31:39 -0800
> From: contopus@TELUS.NET
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Birders,
>
>
>
> On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen
> and photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the
> Canadian border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one
> observer in his eBird checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
> approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a
> Bank Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a
> very dull immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of
> Barn Swallows in nearby areas around this time.)
>
>
>
> Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that
> this is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which
> seems to be almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the
> back? If it is a Barn Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.
>
>
>
> Wayne C. Weber
>
> Delta, BC, Canada
>
> contopus@telus.net
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 16:28 pm
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
Wayne,

I agree, this is clearly not a Bank Swallow. I further concur that it is a Barn Swallow, although I don't recall having seen one that struck me as being so brown on the back. I did find a similar-looking bird in an online photo (link below), that is, ironically, mis-labeled as a Bank Swallow. Light underwing linings, long outer retrices, lack of contrast between the mantle and the wings and lack of dark extending down along the flanks from the sides of the breast all point away from Bank.

http://www.liveanimalslist.com...

In the link above, scroll down to the first set of side-by-side images. The bird on the left is a brown-backed Barn Swallow that looks quite a bit like the Point Roberts bird.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR



> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:31:39 -0800
> From: contopus@TELUS.NET
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Birders,
>
>
>
> On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen and
> photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the Canadian
> border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one observer in his eBird
> checklist, and can be seen at this address:
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
> approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a Bank
> Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a very dull
> immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of Barn Swallows in
> nearby areas around this time.)
>
>
>
> Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that this
> is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which seems to be
> almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the back? If it is a Barn
> Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.
>
>
>
> Wayne C. Weber
>
> Delta, BC, Canada
>
> contopus@telus.net
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 15:49 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Wayne

This is a standard look for Barn Swallow in the neotropics in winter, that
is absolutely normal for a youngster. So yes, agreed it is a Barn Swallow.

Regards,
Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Wayne Weber
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 12:32 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Barn Swallow with brown back?

Birders,



On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen and
photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the Canadian
border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one observer in his eBird
checklist, and can be seen at this address:
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a Bank
Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a very dull
immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of Barn Swallows in
nearby areas around this time.)



Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that this
is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which seems to be
almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the back? If it is a Barn
Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.



Wayne C. Weber

Delta, BC, Canada

contopus@telus.net




Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Barn Swallow with brown back?
Date: Sat Jan 17 2015 15:07 pm
From: contopus AT telus.net
 
Birders,



On January 10th, a brown-backed swallow with a breast band was seen and
photographed at Point Roberts, Washington (just south of the Canadian
border). Three photos of this bird were posted by one observer in his eBird
checklist, and can be seen at this address:
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S21319380 (posted with the
approval of the observer). The swallow was initially identified as a Bank
Swallow. For a number of reasons, however, I believe this was a very dull
immature Barn Swallow. (There were several other reports of Barn Swallows in
nearby areas around this time.)



Comments on this bird would be greatly appreciated. Do you think that this
is a Barn Swallow? Has anyone else seen a Barn Swallow which seems to be
almost completely lacking any blue iridescence on the back? If it is a Barn
Swallow, I don't think I've ever seen one this dull.



Wayne C. Weber

Delta, BC, Canada

contopus@telus.net




Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Brant ID problems
Date: Tue Jan 13 2015 19:11 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
There is also the issue of Pale-bellied x Black Brant hybrids, which are very similar to Gray-bellied. I believe Martin Garner has looked into this issue based on birds seen wintering in Ireland (that come from N. America).

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Lehman
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 2:50 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Brant ID problems

From what I understand, the West Coast Brant situation is even murkier than Alvaro and Tristan may be suggesting. We've had a couple very pale bellied Brant (w/ photos) in San Diego County the past few years, and we assumed at the time that they were likely true Pale-bellied, "Atlantic"
Brant (hrota). But we were then informed by a Brant researcher (works in the Morro Bay area, at least) that the pale extreme of "Gray-bellied"
Brant can look this pale (and with strong contrast between neck-sock and belly)! So of course this begs the question of how one can safely identify such western critters in the field as one or the other taxon.
It also calls in to question exactly how many reports in the "ornithological record" of "Pale-bellied" Brant between western Alaska and southern California (and presumably Baja) are actually, truly hrota, and how many were actually pale-end "Gray-bellieds." I certainly know of a number of reports of "Pale-bellieds" from southern California and from the Nome area in w. Alaska--now mostly in question, it would seem.

Sounds like a can of worms, and I certainly don't know the answers.

--Paul Lehman, San Diego

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Brant confusion
Date: Tue Jan 13 2015 17:37 pm
From: whoffman AT peak.org
 
Hi -

A couple of thoughts - I am not sure I agree that Gray-bellied Brant is more likely than Atlantic. For one thing, I think Grey-bellied has a much smaller population, and smaller breeding range, with maybe the whole migration in a few flocks? So maybe lower propensity to stray? Also the normal wintering range is at higher latitude, which may reduce tendency to stray southward.

I have found a couple of birds at Newort, OR that I have identified as Atlantic Brant, and that appear too pale for Gray-bellied. I hav not seen any birds that I thought were Gray-bellied.

IMO, the bird in your photos is pale enough that Atlantic would not be ruled out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tristan McKee"
To: "BIRDWG01"
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 10:59:16 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Brant confusion

Hi Alvaro -

Not sure if I can help much, but it got me thinking--Atlantic Brant seems to be claimed more often in CA (I think I've seen two), so are we just overlooking these intermediate-looking ones? Or is it a latitude thing? I agree that it's not a Black, but in the distance I'd probably pass it over. This bird does have a considerably darker lower breast than I associate with Atlantic, so I'm guessing your inclination toward Gray-bellied is correct, but I'm not sure how certain we can be about juvs.

Cheers,
Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA

> On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
>
> Hi folks
>
>
>
> In December I photographed this mixed group of Brant here in Half Moon
> Bay, California where Black Brant is the expected and so far only type of
> Brant we have detected. However this group had one juvenile that was
> substantially paler than the adults and juvenile Black Brant in the group.
> It has a clear paler belly than the neck sock, as well it has no dark in the
> vent beyond the legs. The more likely paler brant here is the Grey-bellied
> (now nigrescens) which winters well to the north of us. That form is
> variable but on the whole tends to look somewhat intermediate between Black
> and Atlantic (Pale-bellied) Brant. The issue is that this juvenile still has
> not developed the white on the neck, so one feature to look for is not
> there. Similarly the flank pattern is not developed yet. So the question is
> how or can one tell if this is a Grey-bellied rather than a Pale-bellied
> Brant? On Facebook folks were pretty convinced that this is no Black Brant.
> Any thoughts on the identification?
>
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
> Alvaro
>
>
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
>
> alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
>
> www.alvarosadventures.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Brant ID problems
Date: Tue Jan 13 2015 17:14 pm
From: lehman.paul1 AT verizon.net
 
 From what I understand, the West Coast Brant situation is even murkier
than Alvaro and Tristan may be suggesting. We've had a couple very pale
bellied Brant (w/ photos) in San Diego County the past few years, and we
assumed at the time that they were likely true Pale-bellied, "Atlantic"
Brant (hrota). But we were then informed by a Brant researcher (works
in the Morro Bay area, at least) that the pale extreme of "Gray-bellied"
Brant can look this pale (and with strong contrast between neck-sock and
belly)! So of course this begs the question of how one can safely
identify such western critters in the field as one or the other taxon.
It also calls in to question exactly how many reports in the
"ornithological record" of "Pale-bellied" Brant between western Alaska
and southern California (and presumably Baja) are actually, truly hrota,
and how many were actually pale-end "Gray-bellieds." I certainly know of
a number of reports of "Pale-bellieds" from southern California and from
the Nome area in w. Alaska--now mostly in question, it would seem.

Sounds like a can of worms, and I certainly don't know the answers.

--Paul Lehman, San Diego

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Brant confusion
Date: Tue Jan 13 2015 13:31 pm
From: atmckee AT gmail.com
 
Hi Alvaro -

Not sure if I can help much, but it got me thinking--Atlantic Brant seems to be claimed more often in CA (I think I've seen two), so are we just overlooking these intermediate-looking ones? Or is it a latitude thing? I agree that it's not a Black, but in the distance I'd probably pass it over. This bird does have a considerably darker lower breast than I associate with Atlantic, so I'm guessing your inclination toward Gray-bellied is correct, but I'm not sure how certain we can be about juvs.

Cheers,
Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA

> On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
>
> Hi folks
>
>
>
> In December I photographed this mixed group of Brant here in Half Moon
> Bay, California where Black Brant is the expected and so far only type of
> Brant we have detected. However this group had one juvenile that was
> substantially paler than the adults and juvenile Black Brant in the group.
> It has a clear paler belly than the neck sock, as well it has no dark in the
> vent beyond the legs. The more likely paler brant here is the Grey-bellied
> (now nigrescens) which winters well to the north of us. That form is
> variable but on the whole tends to look somewhat intermediate between Black
> and Atlantic (Pale-bellied) Brant. The issue is that this juvenile still has
> not developed the white on the neck, so one feature to look for is not
> there. Similarly the flank pattern is not developed yet. So the question is
> how or can one tell if this is a Grey-bellied rather than a Pale-bellied
> Brant? On Facebook folks were pretty convinced that this is no Black Brant.
> Any thoughts on the identification?
>
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
>
>
> Alvaro
>
>
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
>
> alvaro@alvarosadventures.com
>
> www.alvarosadventures.com
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Brant confusion
Date: Tue Jan 13 2015 12:35 pm
From: chucao AT coastside.net
 
Hi folks



In December I photographed this mixed group of Brant here in Half Moon
Bay, California where Black Brant is the expected and so far only type of
Brant we have detected. However this group had one juvenile that was
substantially paler than the adults and juvenile Black Brant in the group.
It has a clear paler belly than the neck sock, as well it has no dark in the
vent beyond the legs. The more likely paler brant here is the Grey-bellied
(now nigrescens) which winters well to the north of us. That form is
variable but on the whole tends to look somewhat intermediate between Black
and Atlantic (Pale-bellied) Brant. The issue is that this juvenile still has
not developed the white on the neck, so one feature to look for is not
there. Similarly the flank pattern is not developed yet. So the question is
how or can one tell if this is a Grey-bellied rather than a Pale-bellied
Brant? On Facebook folks were pretty convinced that this is no Black Brant.
Any thoughts on the identification?



https://www.flickr.com/photos/...



Alvaro



Alvaro Jaramillo

alvaro@alvarosadventures.com

www.alvarosadventures.com




Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: NY Grosbeak
Date: Sun Jan 11 2015 21:39 pm
From: tigger64 AT aol.com
 
The bird below has been coming to a feeder sporadically since late November.  I was able to take a photo of the homeowner's camera screen.  It is of limited usefulness but the best available at the moment.  Any opinions on Rose-breasted vs. Black-headed?


https://www.flickr.com/photos/...


Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY

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Subject: A couple of odd Juncos from Oregon
Date: Sun Jan 11 2015 18:21 pm
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
Greetings All,

The photo gallery at the link below includes a number of photos of some odd Juncos that I have photographed over the last several weeks here in Oregon. The first five images show a most peculiar red-backed male with wingbars and gray flanks. My initial impression was that it might be a Cassiar type, but the color of the back and wingbars don't readily fit that. The bird was photographed in Netarts, Tillamook County, Oregon two days ago. There was a second similar bird (lacked wingbars and the back was not as reddish) in the same yard (photos #6 and #7 in the gallery). Then on Christmas Day 2014 I photographed a presumed female/immature bird near Forest Grove, Washington County, Oregon. It shows a mix of gray and brown on the upper and mid flanks and then uniform darker gray on the lower flanks and vent. On the surface, it could easily be passed off as an Oregon Junco, but the gray on the flanks suggests otherwise. There are two photos of this bird (#8 and #9 in the gallery). Finally, I have included two reference photos. One of a presumed female or immature Slate-colored Junco that was also near Forest Grove, Oregon on 25 December 2014 and another that is a presumed Cassiar Junco that I photographed on Sauvie Island (near Portland) back in March 2011.

http://www.birdfellow.com/phot...

Thoughts on these individuals, in particular the two Netarts, Oregon birds (photos #1-7) and the female/immature bird near Forest Grove, Oregon (photos #8-9), would be most welcomed. I've never seen anything quite like the first Netarts bird and so far, all that have looked at the photos of it have scratched their heads in confusion.

Thanks,

Dave Irons
Portland, OR



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Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Sat Jan 10 2015 11:32 am
From: matthewghunter AT gmail.com
 
Location of bird on Dec 29, 2014, for anyone in the area: Madera Canyon,
along stream trail, east side of creek, between Santa Rita Lodge and White
House Picnic Area, probably a quarter mile down from Santa Rita Lodge, just
over 100 meters down from the road jct to Bog Springs Campground. Looking
at Google Earth the coordinates would be 31.728465, -110.880820.

I should insert a couple comments I received prior to posting to IDF, and
which prompted me to do so. The first is a short conversation with Steve
Mlodinow (shared with permission), which I have slightly edited to the
format below:

MLODINOW: So, from the photos, this bird look absolutely like a juv YBSA.
Nothing to point to RNSA... except that bicolored throat. I've now seen a
couple of photos of birds that look like perfectly good juv YBSA during
midwinter with such a throat pattern and must admit to not knowing if juv
YBSA might show more red (or less, depending on sex) in juv plumage than in
adult..... However, your description of the back sounds naught like that of
a juv YBSA, which is usually rather buffy and messy, nothing like neat
rows. So, probably a YBSA x RNSA. Not a RNSA for sure

HUNTER: Would you say it is ... halfway through molting out of juvenile
plumage, with the fairly clear red and white on the head (though still
plenty of flecking toward the back)?

MLODINOW: Some YBSA have an adult looking face pattern even though the
feathers are juv. Note that there is flecking nearly throughout the face
pattern. I think this bird is entirely, or nearly so, in juv plumage.....//
...we did look through hundreds of specimens of juvs, and no RNSA was in
this molt state (they've completed preformative molt by now, excepting
chest band) at this time and we found ZERO RNSA (ad or juv) lacking red on
nape.

That was the end of that conversation; Steve was pretty busy at the moment
and didn't have time to continue.

A couple other comments I received, including these from a senior Wings
leader from SE AZ (anonymous since I didn't ask permission) consider the
bird is a first-winter female RNSA:

"The slightly brownish areas don't look like juvenile plumage – they are
restricted to the areas that a usually whitish in adult males, while brown
juv feathers would be throughout the whole plumage. My guess is that this
is a first winter female. Older females also have less white in the chin.
But who can say what a YBSA X RNSA looks like? I've seen birds like this
before, so it's probably not that rare of a plumage."

"As I mentioned ..., while the white areas have a dirty look, I didn't
think they look like the brown of juvenile plumage, which, when seen in
winter YBSA is all over, not just in the "white" areas. Does Steve think
that first winter females are really as brightly colored as all subsequent
plumages?"

So, ... all these comments---those presented on IDF so far, and these
previous perspectives I have just presented---are an interesting study of
inductive vs. deductive reasoning, in that some of our most basic premises
about the appearance of juvenile versus basic feathers/plumages on these
sapsuckers might be more variable than what some of us assumed. ... And
sometimes we start from an assumption of species to decide on the plumage,
and sometimes we start with an assumption of plumage to decide on the
species.

Let's see if I can summarize some things so far (please help me out here,
correct, add, clarify):

WHAT PLUMAGE DOES THIS BIRD WEAR?: Mlodinow was thinking it is in mostly
juv plumage, because of the dullish plumage, flecking, lack of bib. Pyle
was thinking this bird is possibly an adult because no molt limits are
visible (all greater and other coverts look blackish vs brownish). I also
could not see any molt limits (older feathers), but don't consider myself
very good at seeing them in not-so-crisp photos. In Howell's "Molt" book,
p180, 1st par of Picidae, it says "The sexes and ages of woodpeckers vary
somewhat in most species, but there are no seasonal changes in appearance."
If in fact the bird I photographed is an adult in fresh basic, it seems to
me this constitutes a significant change in appearance! Which leads me
to....

HOW COMMON IS THIS PLUMAGE? SHOULD ANOTHER PLUMAGE/STATE BE ILLUSTRATED IN
FIELD GUIDES?: Whatever the plumage/parentage of the bird I photographed, I
get the feeling from talking with a few folks that this "dirty" look
(particularly where the head/face pattern is colored but flecked, bib
obscured or absent) in some winter sapsuckers is not that uncommon. And
when I do a google search for red-naped or yellow-bellied sapsuckers, I see
a fair number of birds not too far off from my photo; again, with a
combination of a more black and white head pattern (but dull and with
flecking), substantial red on the crown, and duller breast and belly with
little or no bib (e.g., not the brown juv or more crisp black/white/red
adults illustrated in most field guides).

WHERE/WHEN DOES THIS OR SIMILAR PLUMAGES OCCUR? Based on what Peter
mentioned, I wonder if among first-year sapsuckers wintering in more
northern latitudes juv RNs molt quickly and get it over with while juv YBs
hold on tight to their juv plumage, ... and as we move south, the molt
timings of individuals wintering there converge, to both having some molt
prior to migration and some molt continuing through winter? I wonder if
this would produce more "distinct" and distinguishable winter plumages in
the north and more "mixed," "dullish/dirty" winter plumages to the south?
Or, if this is an adult, are there just some winter adult saps that are
really dull buffy, fringed buffy, and distributed randomly across their
range?

Interested in your thoughts.

Matt Hunter
Melrose, OR

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Sat Jan 10 2015 0:19 am
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
This bird shows no black breast shield or even much suggestion that those black feathers might be hidden by buffy fringes. Have I missed something? I would think that an "adult" or post-juvenile (formative or basic) female Red-naped Sapsucker would show a black breast shield. No field guide that I own suggests that female Red-napeds can lack this and I can't find any photos online that show an otherwise adult-like female showing no black on the breast. This bird does appear to have what might be considered a ghosted outline of the breast shield, but I don't see any black feathers within this ghosted outline.

Dave Irons


> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 22:46:40 +0000
> From: kgarrett@NHM.ORG
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> A couple of observations from our collection to augment some of Peter's points:
>
> "If it is an adult the species still seems difficult, but I'd think first about a female Red-naped that lacks red in the nape for some reason. If not this, maybe a hybrid RNxYBSA."
> We have one female Red-naped with so little red on the nape that it would almost certainly be missed in the field or in photos (it is otherwise typical and at an expected date and locality -- spring in eastern California)
>
> "I've seen or captured at least a couple of molting first-fall male sapsuckers with scattered red feathers throughout the throat, rather than in any topographical pattern, and this equates with how most birds molt throat feathers"
> This is clearly the norm for Yellow-bellied males in their first fall -- scattered red feathers throughout the throat on all of our molting young males, never being clearly concentrated on the lower throat in contrast to a white chin. Female Red-naped Sapsuckers in our collection all show pure white chins, and pure red lower throats; the upper throat (below the chin) is individually variable in the amount of red. Molting female Red-napeds in their first fall will also have scattered red feathers, but the chin and uppermost throat are always white (unlike the more uniformly scattered pattern of young male Yellow-bellieds). Molting young male Red-napeds will have a scattered pattern of red like Yellow-bellied, but the molt proceeds quickly so we don't see many birds in that state.
>
> Kimball
>
> Kimball L. Garrett
> Ornithology Collections Manager
> Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
> 900 Exposition Blvd.
> Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
> (213) 763-3368
> kgarrett@nhm.org
> http://www.nhm.org/site/resear...
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Fri Jan 9 2015 17:50 pm
From: kgarrett AT nhm.org
 
A couple of observations from our collection to augment some of Peter's points:

"If it is an adult the species still seems difficult, but I'd think first about a female Red-naped that lacks red in the nape for some reason. If not this, maybe a hybrid RNxYBSA."
We have one female Red-naped with so little red on the nape that it would almost certainly be missed in the field or in photos (it is otherwise typical and at an expected date and locality -- spring in eastern California)

"I've seen or captured at least a couple of molting first-fall male sapsuckers with scattered red feathers throughout the throat, rather than in any topographical pattern, and this equates with how most birds molt throat feathers"
This is clearly the norm for Yellow-bellied males in their first fall -- scattered red feathers throughout the throat on all of our molting young males, never being clearly concentrated on the lower throat in contrast to a white chin. Female Red-naped Sapsuckers in our collection all show pure white chins, and pure red lower throats; the upper throat (below the chin) is individually variable in the amount of red. Molting female Red-napeds in their first fall will also have scattered red feathers, but the chin and uppermost throat are always white (unlike the more uniformly scattered pattern of young male Yellow-bellieds). Molting young male Red-napeds will have a scattered pattern of red like Yellow-bellied, but the molt proceeds quickly so we don't see many birds in that state.

Kimball

Kimball L. Garrett
Ornithology Collections Manager
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
(213) 763-3368
kgarrett@nhm.org
http://www.nhm.org/site/resear...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Fri Jan 9 2015 15:10 pm
From: ppyle AT birdpop.org
 
I think the AZ sapsucker is most likely an adult. I don't see any
juvenile feathers on it, just fringed feathers typical of fresh basic
plumage (this fringing will wear off by spring to create a less
sullied look). Also the outermost greater coverts, distal to the
white bar, look black and full like basic feathers to me, as does the
white bar. First-year sapsuckers retain juvenile outer greater
coverts which are brown and worn compared to some/most medians and
lessers, and usually have a more-worn/slightly dirty white bar.
First-winters also have molt limits among juvenile and formative
feathers median/inner greater coverts, which I don't see on this
bird, although the angles in the images are not the best for confirming this.

If it is an adult the species still seems difficult, but I'd think
first about a female Red-naped that lacks red in the nape for some
reason. If not this, maybe a hybrid RNxYBSA.

How long the preformative molt progresses over winter has more to do
with wintering latitude than taxon. Most sapsuckers wintering in the
U.S. (including all Red-breasteds) complete the molt by November
sometime and don't change plumage thereafter. Those Red-napeds and
Yellow-bellieds that migrate to Mexico or Central America will
continue molting over winter. Of first-year birds wintering in the
U.S., only Yellow-bellied seems to retain juvenile feathering, and
typically it is quite extensive. I'm unaware of a first-year
Yellow-bellied that has not retained at least a few juvenile feathers
through the second prebasic molt, but I suspect some might replace
all body feathers.

I've seen or captured at least a couple of molting first-fall male
sapsuckers with scattered red feathers throughout the throat, rather
than in any topographical pattern, and this equates with how most
birds molt throat feathers.

Cheers, Peter


At 07:49 AM 1/9/2015, Lethaby, Nick wrote:
>All:
>
>FWIW, we have an apparent "dirty-plumaged" "adult" Yellow-bellied
>Sapsucker down in Santa Barbara County right now. I was searching
>for a previously seen juvenile Yellow-bellied Sapsucker in the area
>when I found this bird. At first I thought it was the juvenile bird
>molting into formative. However, in a visit a month later (late Nov,
>I think), I found the original juvenile, which hadn't really
>progressed at all in molt, and this bird, which looked exactly the
>same as it did a few weeks earlier. I concluded it was an "adult"
>with a rather dirty head pattern. Wes Fritz has recently
>photographed the bird so I will see if I can get some pictures up
>for disucussion.
>
>In subsequent discussions with Peter Pyle on other species, Peter
>pointed out that he has done some studies on Common Murres that
>indicate that formative plumage can vary significantly, likely
>depending on when the molt is done and the attendant hormones during
>that period. One possible explanation for the Santa Barbara bird
>(and perhaps for Matt's) is that it is in formative plumage that
>retains aspects of juvenile appearance.
>
>Nick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons
>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 11:51 PM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker
>
>Matt,
>
>I agree that this bird is a bit confounding. Aside from the absence
>of apparent red on the nape, much of the plumage pattern of this
>bird seems to best fit an adult-like female Red-naped Sapsucker.
>According to Mlodinow et al., (2006 article in Birding), a search of
>various collections produced no Red-naped Sapsucker specimens taken
>after October that did not show at least a few red feathers on the
>nape. From what I can see in these photos, this bird appears to have
>none, which on the surface would suggest that it's a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker.
>
>The other question that this bird presents relates to the overall
>plumage. In many respects this bird looks like a hatch-year, with
>quite a bit of retained juvenile feathering, again pointing to
>Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. Note the buffy look to the white facial
>stripes, the entirely buffy and barred underparts, the lack of dark
>breast shield or even any emerging black feathers. Retained juvenile
>feathers in late December is atypical for S. nuchalis and S. ruber,
>while S. varius normally retains juvenile plumage through most of
>its first winter.
>
>At first glance, this bird struck me as a Yellow-bellied because it
>appears to have juvenile feathering in December. But closer
>inspection revealed characteristics that are more suggestive of a
>molting hatch-year female Red-naped. These characteristics include a
>bi-colored throat (suggests female Red-naped) and pale barring on
>the back that seems too constrained for a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker
>and about right for a Red-naped.
>
>Like Matt, I also live in western Oregon, so my experiences with
>winter RNSA and YBSA are equally few. One question that I have for
>folks who live amid transitioning (juvenile to basic) Yellow-bellied
>Sapsuckers: Is there a pattern to the way the red throat fills in on
>young males. It could be that the feather replacement on the throat
>starts at the bottom and moves upward to the base of the bill. If
>that is the case, then I could see this bird being a young male
>Yellow-bellied that is transitioning from juvenile to first basic plumage.
>
>Ultimately, the absence of any apparent red feathering on the nape
>and the retention of juvenile feathering in December lead me to
>believe that this is a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. It might be
>worthwhile to publicize the exact location of this bird and see of
>others visiting this popular birding area can relocate it. By now it
>may have further molted into a less confusing plumage.
>
>Dave Irons
>Portland, OR
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 19:07:29 -0800
> > From: matthewghunter@GMAIL.COM
> > Subject: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >
> > Greetings,
> > I photographed a sapsucker in Madera Canyon on December 29th that,
> > with my quick look (I had family I had to run and catch up with)
> > appeared dark/dirty and clearly had no red in the nape, so I thought
> > it could be a Yellow-bellied. Needing to run I took a bunch of
> > pictures and ran off. Best photos are at:
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> >
> > Living in the PNW, in western Oregon, I have not been in the company
> > of more than a few winter RN or YB saps, and was confused by this bird.
> > Opinions sent to me on the species/parentage have differed. It seems
> > the difference of opinion stems at least in part from different
> > assumptions on what plumage the bird is in: juv or first basic, and
> > what these plumages can look like for RN and YB saps.
> >
> > I am interested in some help determining the plumage of the bird, and
> > subsequently, what this means in terms of the probable species/parentage.
> >
> > So, here are a couple questions to start out with:
> >
> > Do first winter (December, post-juv, first-basic, HY) RN sapsuckers (male?
> > female?) consistently have a plumage that is substantially dull/dirty
> > looking that it is distinguishable from AHY/adult RN saps in winter?
> >
> > Does juv plumage in YB saps, in some individuals, include adult-like
> > red, white, and black on the face but dulled with flecking,
> versus always brown?
> >
> > Is this bird one of the above, or something else?
> >
> > Here is as far as I can get on the bird:
> >
> > Because of the dull plumage, lack of black bib, I assume this is a
> > bird in its first winter of life, whatever the species or parentage.
> >
> > Because I'm not positive what plumage this bird wears: juv, post-juv,
> > or a mix, I can't make a strong statement based on that. My first
> > impression was, hey, look, a sapsucker with some juv plumage,
> which would suggest YB.
> >
> > It had no visible red in the nape. Mlodinow et al. 2006 in Birding
> > found that no RN saps in the winter months lacked red in the nape.
> > Strong vote for YB.
> >
> > It has a red and white throat. Not definitive, but strongly suggestive
> > of RN.
> >
> > The back/scaps are not extensively marked with buffy tones, but rather
> > with whitish/grayish bars, most of which are on the scaps, suggesting
> > RN, but as with many things, not diagnostic.
> >
> > The face pattern, other than being somewhat dull, seems intermediate
> > in terms of the relative amount of white vs black in the face.
> >
> > These characters combined suggest to me that the bird is a hybrid.
> >
> > Perhaps there are other meaningful characteristics on this bird that
> > others can see?
> >
> > I appreciate any observations/thoughts. Thanks.
> >
> > Matt Hunter
> > Melrose, OR
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

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Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Fri Jan 9 2015 10:46 am
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
All:

FWIW, we have an apparent "dirty-plumaged" "adult" Yellow-bellied Sapsucker down in Santa Barbara County right now. I was searching for a previously seen juvenile Yellow-bellied Sapsucker in the area when I found this bird. At first I thought it was the juvenile bird molting into formative. However, in a visit a month later (late Nov, I think), I found the original juvenile, which hadn't really progressed at all in molt, and this bird, which looked exactly the same as it did a few weeks earlier. I concluded it was an "adult" with a rather dirty head pattern. Wes Fritz has recently photographed the bird so I will see if I can get some pictures up for disucussion.

In subsequent discussions with Peter Pyle on other species, Peter pointed out that he has done some studies on Common Murres that indicate that formative plumage can vary significantly, likely depending on when the molt is done and the attendant hormones during that period. One possible explanation for the Santa Barbara bird (and perhaps for Matt's) is that it is in formative plumage that retains aspects of juvenile appearance.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 11:51 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker

Matt,

I agree that this bird is a bit confounding. Aside from the absence of apparent red on the nape, much of the plumage pattern of this bird seems to best fit an adult-like female Red-naped Sapsucker. According to Mlodinow et al., (2006 article in Birding), a search of various collections produced no Red-naped Sapsucker specimens taken after October that did not show at least a few red feathers on the nape. From what I can see in these photos, this bird appears to have none, which on the surface would suggest that it's a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker.

The other question that this bird presents relates to the overall plumage. In many respects this bird looks like a hatch-year, with quite a bit of retained juvenile feathering, again pointing to Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. Note the buffy look to the white facial stripes, the entirely buffy and barred underparts, the lack of dark breast shield or even any emerging black feathers. Retained juvenile feathers in late December is atypical for S. nuchalis and S. ruber, while S. varius normally retains juvenile plumage through most of its first winter.

At first glance, this bird struck me as a Yellow-bellied because it appears to have juvenile feathering in December. But closer inspection revealed characteristics that are more suggestive of a molting hatch-year female Red-naped. These characteristics include a bi-colored throat (suggests female Red-naped) and pale barring on the back that seems too constrained for a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker and about right for a Red-naped.

Like Matt, I also live in western Oregon, so my experiences with winter RNSA and YBSA are equally few. One question that I have for folks who live amid transitioning (juvenile to basic) Yellow-bellied Sapsuckers: Is there a pattern to the way the red throat fills in on young males. It could be that the feather replacement on the throat starts at the bottom and moves upward to the base of the bill. If that is the case, then I could see this bird being a young male Yellow-bellied that is transitioning from juvenile to first basic plumage.

Ultimately, the absence of any apparent red feathering on the nape and the retention of juvenile feathering in December lead me to believe that this is a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. It might be worthwhile to publicize the exact location of this bird and see of others visiting this popular birding area can relocate it. By now it may have further molted into a less confusing plumage.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 19:07:29 -0800
> From: matthewghunter@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Greetings,
> I photographed a sapsucker in Madera Canyon on December 29th that,
> with my quick look (I had family I had to run and catch up with)
> appeared dark/dirty and clearly had no red in the nape, so I thought
> it could be a Yellow-bellied. Needing to run I took a bunch of
> pictures and ran off. Best photos are at:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
> Living in the PNW, in western Oregon, I have not been in the company
> of more than a few winter RN or YB saps, and was confused by this bird.
> Opinions sent to me on the species/parentage have differed. It seems
> the difference of opinion stems at least in part from different
> assumptions on what plumage the bird is in: juv or first basic, and
> what these plumages can look like for RN and YB saps.
>
> I am interested in some help determining the plumage of the bird, and
> subsequently, what this means in terms of the probable species/parentage.
>
> So, here are a couple questions to start out with:
>
> Do first winter (December, post-juv, first-basic, HY) RN sapsuckers (male?
> female?) consistently have a plumage that is substantially dull/dirty
> looking that it is distinguishable from AHY/adult RN saps in winter?
>
> Does juv plumage in YB saps, in some individuals, include adult-like
> red, white, and black on the face but dulled with flecking, versus always brown?
>
> Is this bird one of the above, or something else?
>
> Here is as far as I can get on the bird:
>
> Because of the dull plumage, lack of black bib, I assume this is a
> bird in its first winter of life, whatever the species or parentage.
>
> Because I'm not positive what plumage this bird wears: juv, post-juv,
> or a mix, I can't make a strong statement based on that. My first
> impression was, hey, look, a sapsucker with some juv plumage, which would suggest YB.
>
> It had no visible red in the nape. Mlodinow et al. 2006 in Birding
> found that no RN saps in the winter months lacked red in the nape.
> Strong vote for YB.
>
> It has a red and white throat. Not definitive, but strongly suggestive
> of RN.
>
> The back/scaps are not extensively marked with buffy tones, but rather
> with whitish/grayish bars, most of which are on the scaps, suggesting
> RN, but as with many things, not diagnostic.
>
> The face pattern, other than being somewhat dull, seems intermediate
> in terms of the relative amount of white vs black in the face.
>
> These characters combined suggest to me that the bird is a hybrid.
>
> Perhaps there are other meaningful characteristics on this bird that
> others can see?
>
> I appreciate any observations/thoughts. Thanks.
>
> Matt Hunter
> Melrose, OR
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Fri Jan 9 2015 2:16 am
From: llsdirons AT msn.com
 
Matt,

I agree that this bird is a bit confounding. Aside from the absence of apparent red on the nape, much of the plumage pattern of this bird seems to best fit an adult-like female Red-naped Sapsucker. According to Mlodinow et al., (2006 article in Birding), a search of various collections produced no Red-naped Sapsucker specimens taken after October that did not show at least a few red feathers on the nape. From what I can see in these photos, this bird appears to have none, which on the surface would suggest that it's a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker.

The other question that this bird presents relates to the overall plumage. In many respects this bird looks like a hatch-year, with quite a bit of retained juvenile feathering, again pointing to Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. Note the buffy look to the white facial stripes, the entirely buffy and barred underparts, the lack of dark breast shield or even any emerging black feathers. Retained juvenile feathers in late December is atypical for S. nuchalis and S. ruber, while S. varius normally retains juvenile plumage through most of its first winter.

At first glance, this bird struck me as a Yellow-bellied because it appears to have juvenile feathering in December. But closer inspection revealed characteristics that are more suggestive of a molting hatch-year female Red-naped. These characteristics include a bi-colored throat (suggests female Red-naped) and pale barring on the back that seems too constrained for a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker and about right for a Red-naped.

Like Matt, I also live in western Oregon, so my experiences with winter RNSA and YBSA are equally few. One question that I have for folks who live amid transitioning (juvenile to basic) Yellow-bellied Sapsuckers: Is there a pattern to the way the red throat fills in on young males. It could be that the feather replacement on the throat starts at the bottom and moves upward to the base of the bill. If that is the case, then I could see this bird being a young male Yellow-bellied that is transitioning from juvenile to first basic plumage.

Ultimately, the absence of any apparent red feathering on the nape and the retention of juvenile feathering in December lead me to believe that this is a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker. It might be worthwhile to publicize the exact location of this bird and see of others visiting this popular birding area can relocate it. By now it may have further molted into a less confusing plumage.

Dave Irons
Portland, OR

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 19:07:29 -0800
> From: matthewghunter@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] AZ Sapsucker
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> Greetings,
> I photographed a sapsucker in Madera Canyon on December 29th that, with
> my quick look (I had family I had to run and catch up with) appeared
> dark/dirty and clearly had no red in the nape, so I thought it could be a
> Yellow-bellied. Needing to run I took a bunch of pictures and ran off. Best
> photos are at:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>
> Living in the PNW, in western Oregon, I have not been in the company of
> more than a few winter RN or YB saps, and was confused by this bird.
> Opinions sent to me on the species/parentage have differed. It seems the
> difference of opinion stems at least in part from different assumptions on
> what plumage the bird is in: juv or first basic, and what these plumages
> can look like for RN and YB saps.
>
> I am interested in some help determining the plumage of the bird, and
> subsequently, what this means in terms of the probable species/parentage.
>
> So, here are a couple questions to start out with:
>
> Do first winter (December, post-juv, first-basic, HY) RN sapsuckers (male?
> female?) consistently have a plumage that is substantially dull/dirty
> looking that it is distinguishable from AHY/adult RN saps in winter?
>
> Does juv plumage in YB saps, in some individuals, include adult-like red,
> white, and black on the face but dulled with flecking, versus always brown?
>
> Is this bird one of the above, or something else?
>
> Here is as far as I can get on the bird:
>
> Because of the dull plumage, lack of black bib, I assume this is a bird in
> its first winter of life, whatever the species or parentage.
>
> Because I'm not positive what plumage this bird wears: juv, post-juv, or a
> mix, I can't make a strong statement based on that. My first impression
> was, hey, look, a sapsucker with some juv plumage, which would suggest YB.
>
> It had no visible red in the nape. Mlodinow et al. 2006 in Birding found
> that no RN saps in the winter months lacked red in the nape. Strong vote
> for YB.
>
> It has a red and white throat. Not definitive, but strongly suggestive of
> RN.
>
> The back/scaps are not extensively marked with buffy tones, but rather with
> whitish/grayish bars, most of which are on the scaps, suggesting RN, but as
> with many things, not diagnostic.
>
> The face pattern, other than being somewhat dull, seems intermediate in
> terms of the relative amount of white vs black in the face.
>
> These characters combined suggest to me that the bird is a hybrid.
>
> Perhaps there are other meaningful characteristics on this bird that others
> can see?
>
> I appreciate any observations/thoughts. Thanks.
>
> Matt Hunter
> Melrose, OR
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: AZ Sapsucker
Date: Thu Jan 8 2015 22:19 pm
From: matthewghunter AT gmail.com
 
Greetings,
I photographed a sapsucker in Madera Canyon on December 29th that, with
my quick look (I had family I had to run and catch up with) appeared
dark/dirty and clearly had no red in the nape, so I thought it could be a
Yellow-bellied. Needing to run I took a bunch of pictures and ran off. Best
photos are at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Living in the PNW, in western Oregon, I have not been in the company of
more than a few winter RN or YB saps, and was confused by this bird.
Opinions sent to me on the species/parentage have differed. It seems the
difference of opinion stems at least in part from different assumptions on
what plumage the bird is in: juv or first basic, and what these plumages
can look like for RN and YB saps.

I am interested in some help determining the plumage of the bird, and
subsequently, what this means in terms of the probable species/parentage.

So, here are a couple questions to start out with:

Do first winter (December, post-juv, first-basic, HY) RN sapsuckers (male?
female?) consistently have a plumage that is substantially dull/dirty
looking that it is distinguishable from AHY/adult RN saps in winter?

Does juv plumage in YB saps, in some individuals, include adult-like red,
white, and black on the face but dulled with flecking, versus always brown?

Is this bird one of the above, or something else?

Here is as far as I can get on the bird:

Because of the dull plumage, lack of black bib, I assume this is a bird in
its first winter of life, whatever the species or parentage.

Because I'm not positive what plumage this bird wears: juv, post-juv, or a
mix, I can't make a strong statement based on that. My first impression
was, hey, look, a sapsucker with some juv plumage, which would suggest YB.

It had no visible red in the nape. Mlodinow et al. 2006 in Birding found
that no RN saps in the winter months lacked red in the nape. Strong vote
for YB.

It has a red and white throat. Not definitive, but strongly suggestive of
RN.

The back/scaps are not extensively marked with buffy tones, but rather with
whitish/grayish bars, most of which are on the scaps, suggesting RN, but as
with many things, not diagnostic.

The face pattern, other than being somewhat dull, seems intermediate in
terms of the relative amount of white vs black in the face.

These characters combined suggest to me that the bird is a hybrid.

Perhaps there are other meaningful characteristics on this bird that others
can see?

I appreciate any observations/thoughts. Thanks.

Matt Hunter
Melrose, OR

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Unusual small, black legged peep at Sal delRey, Hidalgo County, TX, 1/3/15
Date: Sat Jan 3 2015 15:33 pm
From: antshrike1 AT aol.com
 
This morning I observed an unusual small Calidris sandpiper with a mixed flock of peeps on the south shore of Sal del Rey near the overlook reached from Brushline Road.  It was the size of the nearby Least Sandpipers but was gray in color with blacklegs and a short, thin bill.  I am thinking it could be a Little Stint or a Red-necked Stint.  Photos are below.  Sal del Rey is part of the Lower Rio Grande NWR and is located in Hidalgo County, Texas.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/...


Any comments are welcome.


Dan Jones, Weslaco

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Glaucous Gull (subspecies barrovianus) Winter Range?
Date: Tue Dec 30 2014 16:35 pm
From: nlethaby AT ti.com
 
I think it's fairly obvious that no subspecies of Glaucous Gull primarily winters along the Pacific Coast of N. America. The numbers are much too small. I would doubt that there are more than a few hundred Glaucous Gulls between Kodiak and Baja, and that may be an exaggeration. As suggested by satellite data, Glaucous Gulls are commoner around Hokkaido in winter, where one can see a few dozen in a day or more.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jean Iron
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:02 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous Gull (subspecies barrovianus) Winter Range?

We posted this today to the North American Gulls Facebook Group. We're posting it here too because many birders aren't on Facebook. See below.

It is assumed that the smallest subspecies of the Glaucous Gull (L. h.
barrovianus), which breeds in Alaska and Yukon, winters along the Pacific Coast of North America. Weiser and Gilchrist (2012) in the BNA state that it "winters from s. Alaska south to the Pacific Northwest, with some reaching south to n. Baja California and n. Sonora." Conversely, Declan Troy (pers.
comm.) has deployed satellite transmitters on Glaucous Gulls in Alaska.
Approximately 100 barrovianus from the breeding range have been marked at many spots on the Arctic Coastal Plain from Wainwright east to Prudhoe Bay.
The most noteworthy finding is that all of Declan's barrovianus winter in Asia, not in North America. Most wintered "around Kamchatka (Bering Sea and Sea of Okhotsk), the Kuril Islands and Japan. If there is ice (and there usually is) many stay out at the ice edge rather than near land."

Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron
Toronto ON
Canada

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Glaucous Gull (subspecies barrovianus) Winter Range?
Date: Tue Dec 30 2014 15:58 pm
From: jeaniron AT sympatico.ca
 
We posted this today to the North American Gulls Facebook Group. We're
posting it here too because many birders aren't on Facebook. See below.

It is assumed that the smallest subspecies of the Glaucous Gull (L. h.
barrovianus), which breeds in Alaska and Yukon, winters along the Pacific
Coast of North America. Weiser and Gilchrist (2012) in the BNA state that it
"winters from s. Alaska south to the Pacific Northwest, with some reaching
south to n. Baja California and n. Sonora." Conversely, Declan Troy (pers.
comm.) has deployed satellite transmitters on Glaucous Gulls in Alaska.
Approximately 100 barrovianus from the breeding range have been marked at
many spots on the Arctic Coastal Plain from Wainwright east to Prudhoe Bay.
The most noteworthy finding is that all of Declan's barrovianus winter in
Asia, not in North America. Most wintered "around Kamchatka (Bering Sea and
Sea of Okhotsk), the Kuril Islands and Japan. If there is ice (and there
usually is) many stay out at the ice edge rather than near land."

Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron
Toronto ON
Canada

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: RFI: Strange Bird Call
Date: Sun Dec 28 2014 9:29 am
From: semirelicta AT gmail.com
 
Check out Western Tanager calls... That's the closest thing I can think of.

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA/Lincoln, NE

On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 3:35 AM, Michael Price
wrote:

> A stocky, slightly long-tailed bird about the size of an Evening Grosbeak;
> call: a *loud*, clear and persistently repeated '*pi-errr-dilik*', almost
> electronic in character.
>
> From high in a bare deciduous tree in an urban planting in East Vancouver
> BC. Seen for about thirty seconds while calling. I was making a Christmas
> social call so no bins, no plumage details, unfortunately.
>
> Any ID help appreciated.
>
> Michael Price
> Vancouver BC Canada
> loblollyboy@gmail.com
>
> Every answer deepens the mystery.
> -- E.O. Wilson
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM, christian artuso
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Mike,
> >
> > Although I am very interested in learning more about the evidence
> > regarding IBWO, I am quite upset with the false dichotomy being presented
> > here, especially the statement “This post is intended for bird watchers
> who
> > do care about conservation”. The characterisation that those who have
> > scrutinised your sightings/evidence as being somehow against conservation
> > is offensive. Many of these people are passionate conservationists. As a
> > conservationist, I welcome the scientific process, peer review and other
> > forms of review and
> > discussion, which benefit conservation (it isn't a hindrance as you
> > imply). Your characterisation of birders is also over-generalised. There
> > are birders who care deeply about conservation and some of us devote our
> > careers and much of our free time to that end. In this case, many people
> > are working hard to preserve and steward the habitats in question for
> their
> > intrinsic value. If you would like to post about conservation please do,
> > that is always welcome! Please also recognize the efforts that are
> ongoing
> > and the many struggles that conservationists face in their difficult
> task.
> > If you wish to describe or defend your evidence for the Ivory-billed
> > Woodpecker’s existence, then that is also welcome and interesting, but
> > please do not pretend that that topic is about conservation – your
> > discussion is rather about weighing the strength of the evidence, which
> is
> > also valid.
> >
> > Bird watchers absolutely can make a big difference in conservation
> issues!
> >
> > Christian Artuso (Manitoba, Canada)
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:28:03 +0000
> > > From: mike@FISHCROW.COM
> > > Subject: [BIRDWG01] “Nobody else had the balls to do it.”
> > > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > >
> > > The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that appeared
> in
> > the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that other
> > ornithologists weren’t willing to take the career risk of getting
> involved
> > in a topic as controversial and contentious as the Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker.
> > Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the
> > inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many bird
> > watchers don’t care about conservation issues. This post is intended for
> > bird watchers who do care about conservation -- especially any who might
> > have the balls to provide real leadership on this issue.
> > >
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDAM9HZ
> > > I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have posted a
> > series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
> > > * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in Louisiana
> > and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are
> > supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence that
> > has been obtained.
> > > * It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for this
> > species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set back
> the
> > conservation of this species for decades and had a serious adverse effect
> > on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted millions of
> dollars
> > by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of obtaining a clear photo.
> Think
> > of where certain species would be right now if conservation efforts for
> the
> > Whooping Crane, California Condor, and Kirtland’s Warbler had been
> delayed
> > for decades or if the harmful effects of DDT had never been recognized.
> > > * An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search
> > efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely that
> > anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the
> > conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear from the
> > pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is an
> > unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from direct experience,
> > and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the search efforts of the
> past
> > decade with the following comment in 1985: “It is almost impossible to
> > photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp unless a nest is discovered.”
> > > * Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that
> were
> > identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous
> behaviors
> > and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed
> > Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of several
> > ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of this
> > evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all three
> > videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such evidence, and
> some
> > of the most compelling events in the 2007 video weren’t discovered until
> > recently. The discussions at the above URL include all of the events in a
> > format that is improved and easier to follow, but the raw data are also
> > available for inspection.
> > > There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of
> the
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for
> identifying
> > birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not be sufficiently
> > resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to the circumstances
> > and exploring a different approach would seem to be appropriate for a
> group
> > that goes by the name “ID Frontiers.” It’s surprising that certain
> members
> > of this forum seem to be cocksure that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is
> > extinct. This would be surprising even if we only had the weakest of the
> > three videos mentioned above. According to Julie Zickefoose, several
> > characteristics of the bird in the 2006 video are consistent with an
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with a Pileated
> > Woodpecker. There is no question that it’s a large woodpecker on the
> basis
> > of the size of the fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after
> > the tree blew down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows
> from
> > the assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird
> in
> > a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be
> > explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of
> that
> > video, it’s clear that I had an excellent vantage point for observing the
> > definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly directly below at
> close
> > range). It’s amazing that anyone could have the arrogance to assert that
> > such a sighting and numerous other sightings by experienced bird watchers
> > (of a large bird with distinctive and prominent field marks and flight
> > characteristics that are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were
> > simply mistakes. The 2007 video shows several events involving highly
> > unusual flights and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed
> > Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with any other candidate
> > species. That video was obtained during an extended encounter with two
> > Ivory-billed Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting.
> > Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence.
> > > We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold.
> > There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts
> > comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned.
> It’s
> > unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the career risk
> of
> > investing significant resources into another search effort. It’s unlikely
> > that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the
> > conservation of this species, which is probably going to fall through the
> > cracks once again unless leadership emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers
> > could make a difference in this conservation issue.
> > > Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com
> > >
> > > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: RFI: Strange Bird Call
Date: Sat Dec 27 2014 6:19 am
From: loblollyboy AT gmail.com
 
Thank you for your responses. I'm familiar with Pine Grosbeak, and it was
not a Pine Grosbeak. For one thing, it was *very* loud and *very* clear: I
heard it a block away. Secondly, the notes were not burry and run-together
as with Pine Grosbeak, but extremely clearly enunciated, so clearly I
wondered if I weren't hearing some electronic Christmas toy. Please let me
emphasise how loud and clearly-enunciated the phrasing was: a distinct,
loud, clear: '*pi-errr-dilik'*, I am unfamiliar with any North American
species which utters this call note.

best wishes



Michael Price
Vancouver BC Canada
loblollyboy@gmail.com

Every answer deepens the mystery.
-- E.O. Wilson



On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Dick Cannings wrote:

> Hi Michael:
> My guess would be Pine Grosbeak.
> Dick Cannings
> Penticton, BC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:
> BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Price
> Sent: December-26-14 1:35 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI: Strange Bird Call
>
> A stocky, slightly long-tailed bird about the size of an Evening Grosbeak;
> call: a *loud*, clear and persistently repeated '*pi-errr-dilik*', almost
> electronic in character.
>
> From high in a bare deciduous tree in an urban planting in East Vancouver
> BC. Seen for about thirty seconds while calling. I was making a Christmas
> social call so no bins, no plumage details, unfortunately.
>
> Any ID help appreciated.
>
> Michael Price
> Vancouver BC Canada
> loblollyboy@gmail.com
>
> Every answer deepens the mystery.
> -- E.O. Wilson
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM, christian artuso
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Mike,
> >
> > Although I am very interested in learning more about the evidence
> > regarding IBWO, I am quite upset with the false dichotomy being
> > presented here, especially the statement “This post is intended for
> > bird watchers who do care about conservation”. The characterisation
> > that those who have scrutinised your sightings/evidence as being
> > somehow against conservation is offensive. Many of these people are
> > passionate conservationists. As a conservationist, I welcome the
> > scientific process, peer review and other forms of review and
> > discussion, which benefit conservation (it isn't a hindrance as you
> > imply). Your characterisation of birders is also over-generalised.
> > There are birders who care deeply about conservation and some of us
> > devote our careers and much of our free time to that end. In this
> > case, many people are working hard to preserve and steward the
> > habitats in question for their intrinsic value. If you would like to
> > post about conservation please do, that is always welcome! Please also
> > recognize the efforts that are ongoing and the many struggles that
> conservationists face in their difficult task.
> > If you wish to describe or defend your evidence for the Ivory-billed
> > Woodpecker’s existence, then that is also welcome and interesting, but
> > please do not pretend that that topic is about conservation – your
> > discussion is rather about weighing the strength of the evidence,
> > which is also valid.
> >
> > Bird watchers absolutely can make a big difference in conservation
> issues!
> >
> > Christian Artuso (Manitoba, Canada)
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:28:03 +0000
> > > From: mike@FISHCROW.COM
> > > Subject: [BIRDWG01] “Nobody else had the balls to do it.”
> > > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> > >
> > > The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that
> > > appeared in
> > the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that
> > other ornithologists weren’t willing to take the career risk of
> > getting involved in a topic as controversial and contentious as the
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker.
> > Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the
> > inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many
> > bird watchers don’t care about conservation issues. This post is
> > intended for bird watchers who do care about conservation --
> > especially any who might have the balls to provide real leadership on
> this issue.
> > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDA
> > > M9HZ I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have
> > > posted a
> > series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
> > > * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in
> > > Louisiana
> > and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are
> > supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence
> > that has been obtained.
> > > * It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for
> > > this
> > species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set
> > back the conservation of this species for decades and had a serious
> > adverse effect on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted
> > millions of dollars by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of
> > obtaining a clear photo. Think of where certain species would be right
> > now if conservation efforts for the Whooping Crane, California Condor,
> > and Kirtland’s Warbler had been delayed for decades or if the harmful
> effects of DDT had never been recognized.
> > > * An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search
> > efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely
> > that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in
> > the conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear
> > from the pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed
> > Woodpecker is an unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from
> > direct experience, and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the
> > search efforts of the past decade with the following comment in 1985:
> > “It is almost impossible to photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp
> unless a nest is discovered.”
> > > * Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that
> > > were
> > identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous
> > behaviors and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of
> > several ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of
> > this evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all
> > three videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such
> > evidence, and some of the most compelling events in the 2007 video
> > weren’t discovered until recently. The discussions at the above URL
> > include all of the events in a format that is improved and easier to
> > follow, but the raw data are also available for inspection.
> > > There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of
> > > the
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for
> > identifying birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not
> > be sufficiently resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to
> > the circumstances and exploring a different approach would seem to be
> > appropriate for a group that goes by the name “ID Frontiers.” It’s
> > surprising that certain members of this forum seem to be cocksure that
> > the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is extinct. This would be surprising even
> > if we only had the weakest of the three videos mentioned above.
> > According to Julie Zickefoose, several characteristics of the bird in
> > the 2006 video are consistent with an Ivory-billed Woodpecker but
> > don’t seem to be consistent with a Pileated Woodpecker. There is no
> > question that it’s a large woodpecker on the basis of the size of the
> > fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after the tree blew
> > down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows from the
> > assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird
> > in a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be
> > explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of
> > that video, it’s clear that I had an excellent vantage point for
> > observing the definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly
> > directly below at close range). It’s amazing that anyone could have
> > the arrogance to assert that such a sighting and numerous other
> > sightings by experienced bird watchers (of a large bird with
> > distinctive and prominent field marks and flight characteristics that
> > are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were simply mistakes.
> > The 2007 video shows several events involving highly unusual flights
> > and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed Woodpecker
> > but don’t seem to be consistent with any other candidate species. That
> video was obtained during an extended encounter with two Ivory-billed
> Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting.
> > Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence.
> > > We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the
> > Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold.
> > There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts
> > comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned.
> > It’s unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the
> > career risk of investing significant resources into another search
> > effort. It’s unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to
> > make a difference in the conservation of this species, which is
> > probably going to fall through the cracks once again unless leadership
> > emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers could make a difference in this
> conservation issue.
> > > Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com
> > >
> > > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: RFI: Strange Bird Call
Date: Fri Dec 26 2014 18:30 pm
From: dickcannings AT shaw.ca
 
Hi Michael:
My guess would be Pine Grosbeak.
Dick Cannings
Penticton, BC

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Price
Sent: December-26-14 1:35 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI: Strange Bird Call

A stocky, slightly long-tailed bird about the size of an Evening Grosbeak;
call: a *loud*, clear and persistently repeated '*pi-errr-dilik*', almost electronic in character.

From high in a bare deciduous tree in an urban planting in East Vancouver BC. Seen for about thirty seconds while calling. I was making a Christmas social call so no bins, no plumage details, unfortunately.

Any ID help appreciated.

Michael Price
Vancouver BC Canada
loblollyboy@gmail.com

Every answer deepens the mystery.
-- E.O. Wilson



On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM, christian artuso
wrote:

> Dear Mike,
>
> Although I am very interested in learning more about the evidence
> regarding IBWO, I am quite upset with the false dichotomy being
> presented here, especially the statement “This post is intended for
> bird watchers who do care about conservation”. The characterisation
> that those who have scrutinised your sightings/evidence as being
> somehow against conservation is offensive. Many of these people are
> passionate conservationists. As a conservationist, I welcome the
> scientific process, peer review and other forms of review and
> discussion, which benefit conservation (it isn't a hindrance as you
> imply). Your characterisation of birders is also over-generalised.
> There are birders who care deeply about conservation and some of us
> devote our careers and much of our free time to that end. In this
> case, many people are working hard to preserve and steward the
> habitats in question for their intrinsic value. If you would like to
> post about conservation please do, that is always welcome! Please also
> recognize the efforts that are ongoing and the many struggles that conservationists face in their difficult task.
> If you wish to describe or defend your evidence for the Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker’s existence, then that is also welcome and interesting, but
> please do not pretend that that topic is about conservation – your
> discussion is rather about weighing the strength of the evidence,
> which is also valid.
>
> Bird watchers absolutely can make a big difference in conservation issues!
>
> Christian Artuso (Manitoba, Canada)
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:28:03 +0000
> > From: mike@FISHCROW.COM
> > Subject: [BIRDWG01] “Nobody else had the balls to do it.”
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >
> > The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that
> > appeared in
> the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that
> other ornithologists weren’t willing to take the career risk of
> getting involved in a topic as controversial and contentious as the Ivory-billed Woodpecker.
> Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the
> inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many
> bird watchers don’t care about conservation issues. This post is
> intended for bird watchers who do care about conservation --
> especially any who might have the balls to provide real leadership on this issue.
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDA
> > M9HZ I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have
> > posted a
> series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
> > * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in
> > Louisiana
> and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are
> supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence
> that has been obtained.
> > * It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for
> > this
> species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set
> back the conservation of this species for decades and had a serious
> adverse effect on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted
> millions of dollars by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of
> obtaining a clear photo. Think of where certain species would be right
> now if conservation efforts for the Whooping Crane, California Condor,
> and Kirtland’s Warbler had been delayed for decades or if the harmful effects of DDT had never been recognized.
> > * An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search
> efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely
> that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in
> the conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear
> from the pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker is an unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from
> direct experience, and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the
> search efforts of the past decade with the following comment in 1985:
> “It is almost impossible to photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp unless a nest is discovered.”
> > * Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that
> > were
> identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous
> behaviors and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of
> several ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of
> this evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all
> three videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such
> evidence, and some of the most compelling events in the 2007 video
> weren’t discovered until recently. The discussions at the above URL
> include all of the events in a format that is improved and easier to
> follow, but the raw data are also available for inspection.
> > There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of
> > the
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for
> identifying birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not
> be sufficiently resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to
> the circumstances and exploring a different approach would seem to be
> appropriate for a group that goes by the name “ID Frontiers.” It’s
> surprising that certain members of this forum seem to be cocksure that
> the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is extinct. This would be surprising even
> if we only had the weakest of the three videos mentioned above.
> According to Julie Zickefoose, several characteristics of the bird in
> the 2006 video are consistent with an Ivory-billed Woodpecker but
> don’t seem to be consistent with a Pileated Woodpecker. There is no
> question that it’s a large woodpecker on the basis of the size of the
> fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after the tree blew
> down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows from the
> assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird
> in a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be
> explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of
> that video, it’s clear that I had an excellent vantage point for
> observing the definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly
> directly below at close range). It’s amazing that anyone could have
> the arrogance to assert that such a sighting and numerous other
> sightings by experienced bird watchers (of a large bird with
> distinctive and prominent field marks and flight characteristics that
> are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were simply mistakes.
> The 2007 video shows several events involving highly unusual flights
> and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed Woodpecker
> but don’t seem to be consistent with any other candidate species. That video was obtained during an extended encounter with two Ivory-billed Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting.
> Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence.
> > We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold.
> There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts
> comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned.
> It’s unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the
> career risk of investing significant resources into another search
> effort. It’s unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to
> make a difference in the conservation of this species, which is
> probably going to fall through the cracks once again unless leadership
> emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers could make a difference in this conservation issue.
> > Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: RFI: Strange Bird Call
Date: Fri Dec 26 2014 4:17 am
From: loblollyboy AT gmail.com
 
A stocky, slightly long-tailed bird about the size of an Evening Grosbeak;
call: a *loud*, clear and persistently repeated '*pi-errr-dilik*', almost
electronic in character.

From high in a bare deciduous tree in an urban planting in East Vancouver
BC. Seen for about thirty seconds while calling. I was making a Christmas
social call so no bins, no plumage details, unfortunately.

Any ID help appreciated.

Michael Price
Vancouver BC Canada
loblollyboy@gmail.com

Every answer deepens the mystery.
-- E.O. Wilson



On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM, christian artuso
wrote:

> Dear Mike,
>
> Although I am very interested in learning more about the evidence
> regarding IBWO, I am quite upset with the false dichotomy being presented
> here, especially the statement “This post is intended for bird watchers who
> do care about conservation”. The characterisation that those who have
> scrutinised your sightings/evidence as being somehow against conservation
> is offensive. Many of these people are passionate conservationists. As a
> conservationist, I welcome the scientific process, peer review and other
> forms of review and
> discussion, which benefit conservation (it isn't a hindrance as you
> imply). Your characterisation of birders is also over-generalised. There
> are birders who care deeply about conservation and some of us devote our
> careers and much of our free time to that end. In this case, many people
> are working hard to preserve and steward the habitats in question for their
> intrinsic value. If you would like to post about conservation please do,
> that is always welcome! Please also recognize the efforts that are ongoing
> and the many struggles that conservationists face in their difficult task.
> If you wish to describe or defend your evidence for the Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker’s existence, then that is also welcome and interesting, but
> please do not pretend that that topic is about conservation – your
> discussion is rather about weighing the strength of the evidence, which is
> also valid.
>
> Bird watchers absolutely can make a big difference in conservation issues!
>
> Christian Artuso (Manitoba, Canada)
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:28:03 +0000
> > From: mike@FISHCROW.COM
> > Subject: [BIRDWG01] “Nobody else had the balls to do it.”
> > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> >
> > The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that appeared in
> the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that other
> ornithologists weren’t willing to take the career risk of getting involved
> in a topic as controversial and contentious as the Ivory-billed Woodpecker.
> Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the
> inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many bird
> watchers don’t care about conservation issues. This post is intended for
> bird watchers who do care about conservation -- especially any who might
> have the balls to provide real leadership on this issue.
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDAM9HZ
> > I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have posted a
> series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
> > * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in Louisiana
> and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are
> supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence that
> has been obtained.
> > * It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for this
> species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set back the
> conservation of this species for decades and had a serious adverse effect
> on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted millions of dollars
> by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of obtaining a clear photo. Think
> of where certain species would be right now if conservation efforts for the
> Whooping Crane, California Condor, and Kirtland’s Warbler had been delayed
> for decades or if the harmful effects of DDT had never been recognized.
> > * An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search
> efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely that
> anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the
> conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear from the
> pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is an
> unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from direct experience,
> and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the search efforts of the past
> decade with the following comment in 1985: “It is almost impossible to
> photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp unless a nest is discovered.”
> > * Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that were
> identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous behaviors
> and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of several
> ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of this
> evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all three
> videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such evidence, and some
> of the most compelling events in the 2007 video weren’t discovered until
> recently. The discussions at the above URL include all of the events in a
> format that is improved and easier to follow, but the raw data are also
> available for inspection.
> > There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of the
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for identifying
> birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not be sufficiently
> resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to the circumstances
> and exploring a different approach would seem to be appropriate for a group
> that goes by the name “ID Frontiers.” It’s surprising that certain members
> of this forum seem to be cocksure that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is
> extinct. This would be surprising even if we only had the weakest of the
> three videos mentioned above. According to Julie Zickefoose, several
> characteristics of the bird in the 2006 video are consistent with an
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with a Pileated
> Woodpecker. There is no question that it’s a large woodpecker on the basis
> of the size of the fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after
> the tree blew down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows from
> the assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird in
> a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be
> explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of that
> video, it’s clear that I had an excellent vantage point for observing the
> definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly directly below at close
> range). It’s amazing that anyone could have the arrogance to assert that
> such a sighting and numerous other sightings by experienced bird watchers
> (of a large bird with distinctive and prominent field marks and flight
> characteristics that are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were
> simply mistakes. The 2007 video shows several events involving highly
> unusual flights and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed
> Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with any other candidate
> species. That video was obtained during an extended encounter with two
> Ivory-billed Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting.
> Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence.
> > We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the
> Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold.
> There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts
> comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned. It’s
> unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the career risk of
> investing significant resources into another search effort. It’s unlikely
> that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the
> conservation of this species, which is probably going to fall through the
> cracks once again unless leadership emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers
> could make a difference in this conservation issue.
> > Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Nobo dy else ha d the ball s to do it .
Date: Wed Dec 24 2014 14:56 pm
From: chartuso AT hotmail.com
 
Dear Mike,

Although I am very interested in learning more about the evidence regarding IBWO, I am quite upset with the false dichotomy being presented here, especially the statement This post is intended for bird watchers who do care about conservation. The characterisation that those who have scrutinised your sightings/evidence as being somehow against conservation is offensive. Many of these people are passionate conservationists. As a conservationist, I welcome the scientific process, peer review and other forms of review and
discussion, which benefit conservation (it isn't a hindrance as you imply). Your characterisation of birders is also over-generalised. There are birders who care deeply about conservation and some of us devote our careers and much of our free time to that end. In this case, many people are working hard to preserve and steward the habitats in question for their intrinsic value. If you would like to post about conservation please do, that is always welcome! Please also recognize the efforts that are ongoing and the many struggles that conservationists face in their difficult task. If you wish to describe or defend your evidence for the Ivory-billed Woodpeckers existence, then that is also welcome and interesting, but please do not pretend that that topic is about conservation your discussion is rather about weighing the strength of the evidence, which is also valid.

Bird watchers absolutely can make a big difference in conservation issues!

Christian Artuso (Manitoba, Canada)



> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:28:03 +0000
> From: mike@FISHCROW.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Nobody else had the balls to do it.
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>
> The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that appeared in the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that other ornithologists werent willing to take the career risk of getting involved in a topic as controversial and contentious as the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many bird watchers dont care about conservation issues. This post is intended for bird watchers who do care about conservation -- especially any who might have the balls to provide real leadership on this issue.
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDAM9HZ
> I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have posted a series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
> * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in Louisiana and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence that has been obtained.
> * It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for this species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set back the conservation of this species for decades and had a serious adverse effect on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted millions of dollars by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of obtaining a clear photo. Think of where certain species would be right now if conservation efforts for the Whooping Crane, California Condor, and Kirtlands Warbler had been delayed for decades or if the harmful effects of DDT had never been recognized.
> * An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear from the pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is an unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from direct experience, and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the search efforts of the past decade with the following comment in 1985: It is almost impossible to photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp unless a nest is discovered.
> * Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that were identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous behaviors and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of several ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of this evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all three videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such evidence, and some of the most compelling events in the 2007 video werent discovered until recently. The discussions at the above URL include all of the events in a format that is improved and easier to follow, but the raw data are also available for inspection.
> There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for identifying birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not be sufficiently resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to the circumstances and exploring a different approach would seem to be appropriate for a group that goes by the name ID Frontiers. Its surprising that certain members of this forum seem to be cocksure that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is extinct. This would be surprising even if we only had the weakest of the three videos mentioned above. According to Julie Zickefoose, several characteristics of the bird in the 2006 video are consistent with an Ivory-billed Woodpecker but dont seem to be consistent with a Pileated Woodpecker. There is no question that its a large woodpecker on the basis of the size of the fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after the tree blew down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows from the assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird in a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of that video, its clear that I had an excellent vantage point for observing the definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly directly below at close range). Its amazing that anyone could have the arrogance to assert that such a sighting and numerous other sightings by experienced bird watchers (of a large bird with distinctive and prominent field marks and flight characteristics that are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were simply mistakes. The 2007 video shows several events involving highly unusual flights and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed Woodpecker but dont seem to be consistent with any other candidate species. That video was obtained during an extended encounter with two Ivory-billed Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting. Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence.
> We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold. There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned. Its unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the career risk of investing significant resources into another search effort. Its unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the conservation of this species, which is probably going to fall through the cracks once again unless leadership emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers could make a difference in this conservation issue.
> Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



Subject: Nobody else had the balls to do it .
Date: Wed Dec 24 2014 13:15 pm
From: bmaybank AT gmail.com
 
I am a conservationist, but am also a student of science, and am fascinated
by the role of memory in humans, especially with respect to eye-witness
testimony, and the observation of nature, particularly birds. In light of
this I recommend the following essay regarding the fallibility of memory:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4...

In light of this I am inexorably drawn to the conclusion that, while there
is a remote chance that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is extant in the U.S.,
there is no compelling recent evidence that it does. Regardless of the
species' continued existence, the increasingly rare habitat it preferred
should be saved for its own sake, along with all the other life therein.

IBWO, R.I.P.

Respectfully,

Blake Maybank


--
White's Lake, Nova Scotia
CANADA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archiv...



Subject: Nobody else had the balls to do it.
Date: Wed Dec 24 2014 12:26 pm
From: mike AT fishcrow.com
 
The subject of this post is a quote by John Fitzpatrick that appeared in the August 2007 issue of Science. He was referring to the fact that other ornithologists weren’t willing to take the career risk of getting involved in a topic as controversial and contentious as the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Several years ago, it became apparent (during an uprising against the inclusion of conservation issues in a birding publication) that many bird watchers don’t care about conservation issues. This post is intended for bird watchers who do care about conservation -- especially any who might have the balls to provide real leadership on this issue. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarETXSiUV1MFkKM6dkKTxnkM6tDAM9HZ
I wrapped up an eight-year search effort last year, but I have posted a series of lectures at the above URL on the following issues:
* The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in Louisiana and Florida with at least four of them. Three of my ten sightings are supported by video evidence that is stronger than any other evidence that has been obtained. 
* It is essential to establish a sustained conservation effort for this species without further delay. A previously missed opportunity set back the conservation of this species for decades and had a serious adverse effect on the search efforts of the past decade, which wasted millions of dollars by focusing almost entirely upon the goal of obtaining a clear photo. Think of where certain species would be right now if conservation efforts for the Whooping Crane, California Condor, and Kirtland’s Warbler had been delayed for decades or if the harmful effects of DDT had never been recognized. 
* An important fact that came out of the recent multi-year search efforts in Arkansas, Florida, and Louisiana is that it is unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. It should be clear from the pattern of multiple rediscoveries that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is an unusually elusive species. John Dennis knew this from direct experience, and he essentially foretold the outcomes of the search efforts of the past decade with the following comment in 1985: “It is almost impossible to photograph an ivorybill in a southern swamp unless a nest is discovered.” 
* Three videos that were obtained during encounters with birds that were identified in the field as Ivory-billed Woodpeckers show numerous behaviors and field marks that can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Those videos have received the support of several ornithologists (some openly, and some in private), and none of this evidence has been refuted. There are concise discussions of all three videos at the above URL. It is difficult to present such evidence, and some of the most compelling events in the 2007 video weren’t discovered until recently. The discussions at the above URL include all of the events in a format that is improved and easier to follow, but the raw data are also available for inspection. 
There is a need for bird watchers to recognize that the situation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker calls for unconventional approaches for identifying birds in video footage in which field marks alone may not be sufficiently resolved to make positive identifications. Adapting to the circumstances and exploring a different approach would seem to be appropriate for a group that goes by the name “ID Frontiers.” It’s surprising that certain members of this forum seem to be cocksure that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is extinct. This would be surprising even if we only had the weakest of the three videos mentioned above. According to Julie Zickefoose, several characteristics of the bird in the 2006 video are consistent with an Ivory-billed Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with a Pileated Woodpecker. There is no question that it’s a large woodpecker on the basis of the size of the fork in which it appears. The fork was collected after the tree blew down in 2008 and is available for inspection. It follows from the assessment of an expert on woodpecker flight mechanics that the bird in a video that was obtained along the same bayou in 2008 can only be explained in terms of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. From the context of that video, it’s clear that I had an excellent vantage point for observing the definitive dorsal field marks (the bird was nearly directly below at close range). It’s amazing that anyone could have the arrogance to assert that such a sighting and numerous other sightings by experienced bird watchers (of a large bird with distinctive and prominent field marks and flight characteristics that are remarkable according to Audubon and others) were simply mistakes. The 2007 video shows several events involving highly unusual flights and other behaviors that are consistent with Ivory-billed Woodpecker but don’t seem to be consistent with any other candidate species. That video was obtained during an extended encounter with two Ivory-billed Woodpeckers at a site where an ornithologist had a sighting. Nobody has managed to refute any of this evidence. 
We have come to a very critical juncture in the history of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Funding has dried up. The trails have gone cold. There are apparently no current hot spots. There are no search efforts comparable to those of the past decade either in progress or planned. It’s unlikely that any ornithologist would be willing to take the career risk of investing significant resources into another search effort. It’s unlikely that anyone will obtain a clear photo in time to make a difference in the conservation of this species, which is probably going to fall through the cracks once again unless leadership emerges from somewhere. Bird watchers could make a difference in this conservation issue. 
Mike CollinsAlexandria, Virginiamike@fishcrow.comhttp://fishcrow.com

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