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Updated on November 16, 2017, 10:00 pm

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16 Nov: @ 21:56:34 Re: Wagtail [Stefan Schlick]
16 Nov: @ 21:06:29 Re: Wagtail [Clive Harris]
16 Nov: @ 20:25:28 Re: Wagtail [Stefan Schlick]
16 Nov: @ 19:11:22 Re: Wagtail [Angus Wilson]
15 Nov: @ 18:13:29  Wagtail [Clive Harris]
10 Nov: @ 11:14:48 Re: Redhead or Greater Scaup [John Gluth]
10 Nov: @ 10:50:20 Re: Redhead or Greater Scaup [Lethaby, Nick]
10 Nov: @ 09:31:03 Re: Redhead or Greater Scaup [Jason Rogers]
10 Nov: @ 08:41:44 Re: Redhead or Greater Scaup [John Gluth]
10 Nov: @ 03:19:33 Re: Redhead or Greater Scaup [Killian Mullarney]
09 Nov: @ 19:26:29  Redhead or Greater Scaup [Lethaby, Nick]
28 Oct: @ 17:34:26 Re: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)? [Dave DeReamus]
28 Oct: @ 16:34:25 Re: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)? [BRUCE DEUEL]
26 Oct: @ 09:26:24  Tropical Kingbird in Nova Scotia [Alix d'Entremont]
25 Oct: @ 20:52:37 Re: Jaeger ID request [Blair Nikula]
25 Oct: @ 15:56:53 Re: Jaeger ID request [Kevin McLaughlin]
25 Oct: @ 15:02:15 Re: Jaeger ID request [Peter Adriaens]
25 Oct: @ 11:40:41 Re: Jaeger ID request [Kevin McLaughlin]
25 Oct: @ 10:36:13 Re: Jaeger ID request [Peter Adriaens]
24 Oct: @ 23:04:31 Re: Jaeger ID request [John Gluth]
24 Oct: @ 23:02:10  Jaeger ID request [John Gluth]
23 Oct: @ 08:40:44  October 23, 1977 [Arch McCallum]
22 Oct: @ 16:04:28  Probable Prairie Warbler hybrid [Haynes Miller]
22 Oct: @ 12:32:09 Re: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)? [Noah Arthur]
22 Oct: @ 12:19:48  Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)? [Marshall Weber]
19 Oct: @ 09:04:41 Re: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse [Robert O'Brien]
19 Oct: @ 08:44:29 Re: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse [Robert O'Brien]
17 Oct: @ 19:34:21 Re: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse [Jerry Tangren]
17 Oct: @ 12:36:17  ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse [Walter Szeliga]





Subject: Wagtail
Date: Thu Nov 16 2017 21:56 pm
From: greenfant AT hotmail.com
 
Oops, Clive, I only looked at that one picture. It clearly shows in the other pix. Totally agree, the lack of a full yellow border is weird.


Cheers,


Stefan Schlick

Hillsboro, OR

________________________________
From: Clive Harris
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:04 PM
To: Stefan Schlick
Cc: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Wagtail

Stefan

Many thanks. I agree all those are consistent with Citrine and this is probably what it is. But the dark nape is clearly joined to the dark ear coverts in the bird in question. There is a photo from the rear showing this. I'd agree there are no other unusual features.

Regards

Clive Harris

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 9:15 PM, Stefan Schlick wrote:
>
> What also really points to Citrine Wagtail are the all black bill, all gray back and white undertail coverts. The dark ear covert may not be showing the yellow border near the neck since the bird has its head turned slightly to left.
>
>
> Stefan Schlick
>
> Hillsboro, OR
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Angus Wilson
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:10 PM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Wagtail
>
> Was hoping others with more experience of central Asian wagtails would
> chime in. Have been going back and forth on the extent of variation within
> female Citrine Wagtails. However, I suspect that's what Clive's bird is,
> rather than a hybrid. I can see hints of the black shawl at the edge of
> gray mantle bordering on the yellow of the head.
>
> This checklist, also from Oman, includes a similarly dark cheeked
> individual.
>
> https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
>
> Lovely birds!
>
> Angus Wilson, New York, USA
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Clive Harris <
> 00000464ec375886-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear all
>> I photographed this wagtail recently in Muscat. It basically seems to be a
>> Citrine but I can't recall seeing that species with a head pattern like
>> this, with a dark cap and neck joining a line going through the eye (rather
>> than the yellow on the face circling the coverts). I couldn't find a photo
>> of a similar bird either. However I practically never get the chance to
>> see this species these days, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. I'd
>> appreciate any feedback on whether this is a Citrine or if it might have
>> some mixed lineage.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>> 37558576065/
>> Many thanks
>> Clive Harris
>> .
>>
>>
>> | | Virus-free. www.avg.com |
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Angus Wilson
> New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
> http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Wagtail
Date: Thu Nov 16 2017 21:06 pm
From: 00000464ec375886-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Stefan

Many thanks. I agree all those are consistent with Citrine and this is probably what it is. But the dark nape is clearly joined to the dark ear coverts in the bird in question. There is a photo from the rear showing this. I'd agree there are no other unusual features.

Regards

Clive Harris

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 9:15 PM, Stefan Schlick wrote:
>
> What also really points to Citrine Wagtail are the all black bill, all gray back and white undertail coverts. The dark ear covert may not be showing the yellow border near the neck since the bird has its head turned slightly to left.
>
>
> Stefan Schlick
>
> Hillsboro, OR
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Angus Wilson
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:10 PM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Wagtail
>
> Was hoping others with more experience of central Asian wagtails would
> chime in. Have been going back and forth on the extent of variation within
> female Citrine Wagtails. However, I suspect that's what Clive's bird is,
> rather than a hybrid. I can see hints of the black shawl at the edge of
> gray mantle bordering on the yellow of the head.
>
> This checklist, also from Oman, includes a similarly dark cheeked
> individual.
>
> https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...
>
> Lovely birds!
>
> Angus Wilson, New York, USA
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Clive Harris <
> 00000464ec375886-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear all
>> I photographed this wagtail recently in Muscat. It basically seems to be a
>> Citrine but I can't recall seeing that species with a head pattern like
>> this, with a dark cap and neck joining a line going through the eye (rather
>> than the yellow on the face circling the coverts). I couldn't find a photo
>> of a similar bird either. However I practically never get the chance to
>> see this species these days, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. I'd
>> appreciate any feedback on whether this is a Citrine or if it might have
>> some mixed lineage.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>> 37558576065/
>> Many thanks
>> Clive Harris
>> .
>>
>>
>> | | Virus-free. www.avg.com |
>>
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Angus Wilson
> New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
> http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Wagtail
Date: Thu Nov 16 2017 20:25 pm
From: greenfant AT hotmail.com
 
What also really points to Citrine Wagtail are the all black bill, all gray back and white undertail coverts. The dark ear covert may not be showing the yellow border near the neck since the bird has its head turned slightly to left.


Stefan Schlick

Hillsboro, OR


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Angus Wilson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:10 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Wagtail

Was hoping others with more experience of central Asian wagtails would
chime in. Have been going back and forth on the extent of variation within
female Citrine Wagtails. However, I suspect that's what Clive's bird is,
rather than a hybrid. I can see hints of the black shawl at the edge of
gray mantle bordering on the yellow of the head.

This checklist, also from Oman, includes a similarly dark cheeked
individual.

https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...

Lovely birds!

Angus Wilson, New York, USA

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Clive Harris <
00000464ec375886-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Dear all
> I photographed this wagtail recently in Muscat. It basically seems to be a
> Citrine but I can't recall seeing that species with a head pattern like
> this, with a dark cap and neck joining a line going through the eye (rather
> than the yellow on the face circling the coverts). I couldn't find a photo
> of a similar bird either. However I practically never get the chance to
> see this species these days, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. I'd
> appreciate any feedback on whether this is a Citrine or if it might have
> some mixed lineage.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> 37558576065/
> Many thanks
> Clive Harris
> .
>
>
> | | Virus-free. www.avg.com |
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Angus Wilson
New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Wagtail
Date: Thu Nov 16 2017 19:11 pm
From: oceanwanderers AT gmail.com
 
Was hoping others with more experience of central Asian wagtails would
chime in. Have been going back and forth on the extent of variation within
female Citrine Wagtails. However, I suspect that's what Clive's bird is,
rather than a hybrid. I can see hints of the black shawl at the edge of
gray mantle bordering on the yellow of the head.

This checklist, also from Oman, includes a similarly dark cheeked
individual.

https://ebird.org/ebird/view/c...

Lovely birds!

Angus Wilson, New York, USA

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Clive Harris <
00000464ec375886-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Dear all
> I photographed this wagtail recently in Muscat. It basically seems to be a
> Citrine but I can't recall seeing that species with a head pattern like
> this, with a dark cap and neck joining a line going through the eye (rather
> than the yellow on the face circling the coverts). I couldn't find a photo
> of a similar bird either. However I practically never get the chance to
> see this species these days, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. I'd
> appreciate any feedback on whether this is a Citrine or if it might have
> some mixed lineage.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> 37558576065/
> Many thanks
> Clive Harris
> .
>
>
> | | Virus-free. www.avg.com |
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>



--
Angus Wilson
New York City & The Springs, NY, USA
http://birdingtotheend.blogspo...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Wagtail
Date: Wed Nov 15 2017 18:13 pm
From: 00000464ec375886-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Dear all
I photographed this wagtail recently in Muscat. It basically seems to bea Citrine but I can't recall seeing that species with a head pattern like this, with a dark cap and neckjoining a line going through the eye (rather than the yellow on the face circling the coverts). I couldn't finda photo of a similar bird either. However I practically never get the chance to see this species these days, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. I'd appreciate any feedback on whether this is a Citrine or if it might have some mixed lineage.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
Many thanks
Clive Harris
.


| | Virus-free. www.avg.com |


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Fri Nov 10 2017 11:14 am
From: jgluth AT optonline.net
 
*Slaps forehead* Don't know why I didn't consider RNDU as well. Even though I see ample numbers of Ring-necks every Fall/Winter, I see relatively few immature males and even fewer in flight. Will have to start taking and studying flight photos of them now that I have a DSLR and telephoto lens.

John Gluth,
Sent from my iPhone
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Fri Nov 10 2017 10:50 am
From: 000003fc6e73b46b-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
All,

I am buying in on the RN Duck identification. Found a photo after a lot of looking of a bird that matches the face pattern and eye color: https://ebird.org/media/catalo...

The pattern of the black trailing edge to the wing fading out on the very innermost secondaries also fits RN Duck perfectly and better than Redhead, which tends to start to fade on the outer secondaries.

Thanks a lot for the help.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Rogers
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:31 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDWG01] Redhead or Greater Scaup

Agree. I don't see Redhead here and bill structure and pattern isn't right for scaup. I'd say Ring-necked Duck.


Cheers,


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Killian Mullarney
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:18 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Redhead or Greater Scaup

Surely a first-year male Ring-necked Duck?

Regards,

Killian Mullarney

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Lethaby, Nick < 000003fc6e73b46b-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> All,
>
> Adam Searcy was out on Santa Barbara Island recently and photographed
> this aythya duck flying by:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Although, it was tentatively claimed as a Greater Scaup, I was
> wondering if it might in fact be a Redhead. One feature that seems
> strongly pro-Redhead, if correctly represented in the photographs, is
> the fact the black trailing edge to the wing appears to fade out on
> the inner secondaries in both photos that show this area. Greater
> Scaup seems to consistently show a broad black trailing edge along the
> whole length of the wing.
>
> The face pattern seems to pretty strongly favor Greater Scaup,
> although I was able to find a couple of Redhead pictures that seemed
> to show a brown head without an eye-ring and some pale around the bill base.
>
> I think the bill pattern favors Redhead although I found Greater
> Scaups showing a hint of a similar pattern and also reddish-brown eyes
> link this bird.
>
> Whatever it is, it will be a new island bird, so we'd like to be sure
> of the identification.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Goleta, CA 93117
>
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Fri Nov 10 2017 9:31 am
From: hawkowl AT hotmail.com
 
Agree. I don't see Redhead here and bill structure and pattern isn't right for scaup. I'd say Ring-necked Duck.


Cheers,


Jason Rogers

Calgary, AB


________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Killian Mullarney
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:18 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Redhead or Greater Scaup

Surely a first-year male Ring-necked Duck?

Regards,

Killian Mullarney

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Lethaby, Nick <
000003fc6e73b46b-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> All,
>
> Adam Searcy was out on Santa Barbara Island recently and photographed this
> aythya duck flying by:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Although, it was tentatively claimed as a Greater Scaup, I was wondering
> if it might in fact be a Redhead. One feature that seems strongly
> pro-Redhead, if correctly represented in the photographs, is the fact the
> black trailing edge to the wing appears to fade out on the inner
> secondaries in both photos that show this area. Greater Scaup seems to
> consistently show a broad black trailing edge along the whole length of the
> wing.
>
> The face pattern seems to pretty strongly favor Greater Scaup, although I
> was able to find a couple of Redhead pictures that seemed to show a brown
> head without an eye-ring and some pale around the bill base.
>
> I think the bill pattern favors Redhead although I found Greater Scaups
> showing a hint of a similar pattern and also reddish-brown eyes link this
> bird.
>
> Whatever it is, it will be a new island bird, so we'd like to be sure of
> the identification.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Goleta, CA 93117
>
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Fri Nov 10 2017 8:41 am
From: jgluth AT optonline.net
 
Interesting bird. From the eye to tip of tail the bird looks good for Greater Scaup -  not sure how much weight I'd put on the blackness of the trailing edge of the wings given the viewing angle, lighting and sharpness of the photos. It's forward of the eye where I can certainly understand the suspicion of Redhead. First, the amount of white feathering at the base of the bill seems insufficient for Greater Scaup, and with a rear margin that is too indistinct, though that may be a factor of age/molt (perhaps HY female scaup could have this reduced amount of white?). The bill itself is even more problematic for GRSC. The outer half doesn't appear broad and spatulate enough, and the amount of white behind the nail - if not a lighting artifact - seems well outside the "norm" for GRSC. This bird may be a case where the dreaded "H" word may come into play.

John Gluth,
Sent from my iPhone



John Gluth,
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 10, 2017, at 1:01 AM, BIRDWG01 automatic digest system wrote:
>
> There is 1 message totaling 46 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Redhead or Greater Scaup
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 01:25:59 +0000
> From: "Lethaby, Nick"
> Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
>
> All,
>
> Adam Searcy was out on Santa Barbara Island recently and photographed this aythya duck flying by:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Although, it was tentatively claimed as a Greater Scaup, I was wondering if it might in fact be a Redhead. One feature that seems strongly pro-Redhead, if correctly represented in the photographs, is the fact the black trailing edge to the wing appears to fade out on the inner secondaries in both photos that show this area. Greater Scaup seems to consistently show a broad black trailing edge along the whole length of the wing.
>
> The face pattern seems to pretty strongly favor Greater Scaup, although I was able to find a couple of Redhead pictures that seemed to show a brown head without an eye-ring and some pale around the bill base.
>
> I think the bill pattern favors Redhead although I found Greater Scaups showing a hint of a similar pattern and also reddish-brown eyes link this bird.
>
> Whatever it is, it will be a new island bird, so we'd like to be sure of the identification.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Goleta, CA 93117
>
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BIRDWG01 Digest - 28 Oct 2017 to 9 Nov 2017 (#2017-104)
> **************************************************************

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Fri Nov 10 2017 3:19 am
From: ktmullarney AT gmail.com
 
Surely a first-year male Ring-necked Duck?

Regards,

Killian Mullarney

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Lethaby, Nick <
000003fc6e73b46b-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> All,
>
> Adam Searcy was out on Santa Barbara Island recently and photographed this
> aythya duck flying by:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Although, it was tentatively claimed as a Greater Scaup, I was wondering
> if it might in fact be a Redhead. One feature that seems strongly
> pro-Redhead, if correctly represented in the photographs, is the fact the
> black trailing edge to the wing appears to fade out on the inner
> secondaries in both photos that show this area. Greater Scaup seems to
> consistently show a broad black trailing edge along the whole length of the
> wing.
>
> The face pattern seems to pretty strongly favor Greater Scaup, although I
> was able to find a couple of Redhead pictures that seemed to show a brown
> head without an eye-ring and some pale around the bill base.
>
> I think the bill pattern favors Redhead although I found Greater Scaups
> showing a hint of a similar pattern and also reddish-brown eyes link this
> bird.
>
> Whatever it is, it will be a new island bird, so we'd like to be sure of
> the identification.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Goleta, CA 93117
>
> Office: 805 562 5106
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
> Email: nlethaby@ti.com
>
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Redhead or Greater Scaup
Date: Thu Nov 9 2017 19:26 pm
From: 000003fc6e73b46b-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
All,

Adam Searcy was out on Santa Barbara Island recently and photographed this aythya duck flying by:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

Although, it was tentatively claimed as a Greater Scaup, I was wondering if it might in fact be a Redhead. One feature that seems strongly pro-Redhead, if correctly represented in the photographs, is the fact the black trailing edge to the wing appears to fade out on the inner secondaries in both photos that show this area. Greater Scaup seems to consistently show a broad black trailing edge along the whole length of the wing.

The face pattern seems to pretty strongly favor Greater Scaup, although I was able to find a couple of Redhead pictures that seemed to show a brown head without an eye-ring and some pale around the bill base.

I think the bill pattern favors Redhead although I found Greater Scaups showing a hint of a similar pattern and also reddish-brown eyes link this bird.

Whatever it is, it will be a new island bird, so we'd like to be sure of the identification.

Thanks,

Nick Lethaby
Goleta, CA 93117

Office: 805 562 5106
Mobile: 805 284 6200
Email: nlethaby@ti.com


Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)?
Date: Sat Oct 28 2017 17:34 pm
From: becard AT rcn.com
 
Hi Marshall,

I agree with Noah that this does not look like a "Richardson's" Cackling
Goose and most likely is a Lesser Canada Goose. The head seems too rounded,
the forehead and bill has too much slope to it, the back of the bird appears
brownish, and the chinstrap seems tapered and rounded at the top.

We get "Richardson's" here in PA fairly regularly. They are definitely
uncommon, but there are almost always one or more around the area mixed in
with the Canadas. They are close to Mallard size, have a very stubby bill
and a steep-looking forehead. The other thing is that the backs of the
birds appear much grayer or silvery when compared to the surrounding Canada
Geese. One finer point that usually works is that the top edge of the
chinstrap is usually wider and more horizontal than the more narrow and
rounded look of the Canadas.

Here's a link to one of my albums that has five documentation-grade photos
of "Richardson's" Cackling Geese several photos down.
https://goo.gl/photos/rAzWQHNX...
Click on the photos and the accompanying information to the right of the
photo, which describes these points.

Hope this helps.

Good birding,
Dave DeReamus
Palmer Township, PA
becard -at- rcn.com
Blog: http://becard.blogspot.com
Eastern PA Birding: http://users.rcn.com/becard/ho...
Google Photo Albums:
https://get.google.com/albumar...


-----Original Message-----
From: BRUCE DEUEL
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:33 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose
(in Georgia)?

I expected my colleague Steve Mlodinow, who has much more experience with
Richardson's than I do, to respond by now, but maybe he agrees with Noah.
I've seen a fair number of "Lessers" in California and in Alaska, and to me
they look like shorter-necked, smaller versions of B. c. moffitti. These
birds look to me like many photos I've seen (never having seen a live one)
of Richardson's.
Cheers,
Bruce Deuel
Red Bluff CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Arthur"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 10:32:05 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose
(in Georgia)?

My impression is Lesser Canada. The bill looks longer and thinner than the
Richardson's Cacklers I see here in Nebraska. I think of Cacklers as having
a stubby, short, thick "redpoll bill".

Noah

On Sunday, October 22, 2017, Marshall Weber wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My name is Marshall Weber and I am a birder from Georgia. I was out with a
> friend yesterday afternoon when we found an interesting Branta Goose on a
> small lake (Lake Olympia) in Haralson County, Georgia on the border with
> Alabama. This bird was noticeably much smaller than the typical Canada
> Geese we get in Georgia, so we took pictures and are now struggling to
> identify this lone bird as there were no other birds nearby with which to
> compare it. I believe the bird is either a Hutchinson's Cackling Goose
> (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii) or a Lesser Canada Goose (Branta canadensis
> parvipes). I have no experience with either of these subspecies as neither
> is supposed to be in Georgia, so I was looking for any expert help with
> identifying the bird. I also understand that a final identification may be
> impossible given the lack of other geese/waterfowl with which to compare
> the bird. The eBird checklist with photos can be found at the link below:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> We appreciate any suggestions!
>
> Good Birding,
> Marshall Weber
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

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Subject: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)?
Date: Sat Oct 28 2017 16:34 pm
From: bdeuel AT wildblue.net
 
I expected my colleague Steve Mlodinow, who has much more experience with Richardson's than I do, to respond by now, but maybe he agrees with Noah.  I've seen a fair number of "Lessers" in California and in Alaska, and to me they look like shorter-necked, smaller versions of B. c. moffitti.  These birds look to me like many photos I've seen (never having seen a live one) of Richardson's.
Cheers,
Bruce Deuel
Red Bluff CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Arthur"
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 10:32:05 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)?

My impression is Lesser Canada. The bill looks longer and thinner than the
Richardson's Cacklers I see here in Nebraska. I think of Cacklers as having
a stubby, short, thick "redpoll bill".

Noah

On Sunday, October 22, 2017, Marshall Weber wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My name is Marshall Weber and I am a birder from Georgia. I was out with a
> friend yesterday afternoon when we found an interesting Branta Goose on a
> small lake (Lake Olympia) in Haralson County, Georgia on the border with
> Alabama. This bird was noticeably much smaller than the typical Canada
> Geese we get in Georgia, so we took pictures and are now struggling to
> identify this lone bird as there were no other birds nearby with which to
> compare it. I believe the bird is either a Hutchinson's Cackling Goose
> (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii) or a Lesser Canada Goose (Branta canadensis
> parvipes). I have no experience with either of these subspecies as neither
> is supposed to be in Georgia, so I was looking for any expert help with
> identifying the bird. I also understand that a final identification may be
> impossible given the lack of other geese/waterfowl with which to compare
> the bird. The eBird checklist with photos can be found at the link below:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> We appreciate any suggestions!
>
> Good Birding,
> Marshall Weber
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

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Subject: Tropical Kingbird in Nova Scotia
Date: Thu Oct 26 2017 9:26 am
From: alixdentremont AT hotmail.com
 
Nova Scotia's first Tropical Kingbird was found by Ervin Olsen on Oct 24, 2017, in the Chebogue area of Yarmouth County.


The outer primaries lack the obvious notching of an adult, but P10 and P9 appear to be ever so slightly notched. Does this identify it as a hatch-year male?


Can anything be said of its provenance from the extent of moult or wear? I assume these two characteristics would be different based on if this bird is from the northern or southern portions of its range (where it is migratory).


Here are some photos.

http://ebird.org/ebird/canada/...


Thanks.


Alix Arthur d'Entremont
BSc Geomatics Engineering


292 Abbott's Harbour Road
Middle West Pubnico
Yarmouth Co., Nova Scotia
Canada B0W 2M0


Phone: +1 902 762 2082
Mobile: +1 902 307 0373
e-mail: alixdentremont@hotmail.com
Bird Photography http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...
Website http://alixdentremont.blogspot...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Wed Oct 25 2017 20:52 pm
From: odenews AT odenews.org
 
I agree with Peter that this is a Parasitic. I disagree with Kevin and
John that this is a 2nd calendar year bird (i.e., 15-16 months old).
Birds of that age still have heavily mottled, juvenile-like underwings.
Although the photos are underexposed, it certainly appears that the
underwings are pretty solidly dark, with perhaps a few white flecks,
which indicates at least 3rd calendar year (i.e. 27+ months old). That
it has begun primary molt is also suggestive of an older bird. A
Long-tailed of that age would show very little if any white on the
underside of the primaries, nor would it have a dark chest. The extent
of white on the underside of the primaries on immature PAJA is highly
variable.

It's hard to judge the shape of the central rectrices given the angle of
the photos, but they strike me as being more PAJA-like. And it's
impossible to determine the amount of white on the upper side of the
primaries given the angles (and in any event, some PAJA can have
LTJA-like primary patterns). I see nothing on this bird that is
inconsistent with Parasitic.

Here are a couple of one-year-old Parasitics photographed off Cape Cod
last weekend:
Bird A dorsal:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
Bird A ventral:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
Bird B:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
Bird B ventral:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

And a 2-year-old Long-tailed photographed in late June:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Blair Nikula


On 10/25/2017 4:56 PM, Kevin McLaughlin wrote:
> Hi Peter. Thank you for your comments on this difficult bird. I cannot take
> this much further as I have already put forth my impressions on the bird
> and my tentative opinion has been given on species and putative age. One
> concern I have regarding your comments is that you refer to "the plumage of
> Long-tailed Jaeger does not normally look like this..." but there is no
> reference to age. As we all know, the three species vary tremendously in
> plumage from juvenile to definitive, and there is no question that age and
> its attendant plumages are a complicating factor in identification.
> Hopefully more opinions will be forthcoming............Kevin.
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Peter Adriaens
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> the "problem" is that the plumage of Long-tailed Jaeger does not normally
>> look like this...
>> The bird has solid blackish undertail coverts that are sharply demarcated
>> from the white ventral area.
>> When the undertail coverts are extensively dark in Long-tailed, there is
>> generally also a dark wash on vent and even the belly;
>> a clear-cut black/white division is therefore lacking.
>> The breast band is also quite dark and extensive for an individual with
>> such a clean white belly.
>> The dark 'cap' of this bird looks extensive and it seems to me that it
>> clearly reaches below the eye.
>> The bill looks rather long to me.
>> The white under primary patch is obvious and extensive - better for
>> Parasitic. In any case, a restricted, small patch is often seen in immature
>> Parasitic too.
>>
>> Here are a few similarly distant photos of an immature Parasitic Jaeger
>> that lingered in Belgium for a few days in late July 2016;
>> I think it looks quite similar to John's bird in these shots, except that
>> it has a clearly small under primary patch (thus showing the relativity of
>> this character).
>>
>> https://waarnemingen.be/foto/v...
>> https://waarnemingen.be/foto/v...
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:41:04 PM GMT+2, Kevin McLaughlin <
>> kevinmclaughlin05 AT GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi John. You have provided some excellent points to support a LTJ ID. The
>> pale head may be an artifact of lighting on the bird as the head seems
>> darker in some photos. I noticed in one photo that there was a small bit of
>> white on the outer two or so primaries on the upper side, suggesting LTJ.
>> Also the impression, perhaps tentative, that the white under primary patch
>> seems not as broad and rounded as I would want to see on a Parasitic, thus
>> more appropriate for LTJ. I mainly got the impression of a shortish,
>> relatively thick bill. Your notes on age resonate with me as well and I see
>> primary molt going on with a "step up" from the secondaries to the inner
>> most primaries, also leading away from any consideration of a juvenile. So
>> I am concluding that this was a LTJ, probably in molt from first summer to
>> second winter...
>>
>> Kevin McLaughlin
>> Hamilton, Ontario.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Peter Adriaens <
>> 00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> the photos are not very detailed but it looks like a Parasitic Jaeger to
>>> me.
>>> Best,Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:02:14 AM GMT+2, John Gluth <
>>> jgluth@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I
>>> observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island
>>> hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my
>>> usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic
>>> trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from
>>> the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial
>> binocular
>>> view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I
>> got
>>> was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next
>>> thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any
>>> expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at
>> the
>>> bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a
>>> more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It
>>> passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still
>> quite
>>> high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below).
>>> Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed
>>> jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive
>>> ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and
>>> the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty'
>>> body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head
>>> that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2
>>> white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two
>> images
>>> (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe
>>> this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of
>> barring
>>> on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this
>>> hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>>
>>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

--
2 Gilbert Lane
Harwich Port, MA 02646
www.odenews.org
www.capecodbirds.org

"You cannot trust your eyes when your imagination if out of focus" - Mark Twain

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Wed Oct 25 2017 15:56 pm
From: kevinmclaughlin05 AT gmail.com
 
Hi Peter. Thank you for your comments on this difficult bird. I cannot take
this much further as I have already put forth my impressions on the bird
and my tentative opinion has been given on species and putative age. One
concern I have regarding your comments is that you refer to "the plumage of
Long-tailed Jaeger does not normally look like this..." but there is no
reference to age. As we all know, the three species vary tremendously in
plumage from juvenile to definitive, and there is no question that age and
its attendant plumages are a complicating factor in identification.
Hopefully more opinions will be forthcoming............Kevin.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Peter Adriaens
wrote:

> Hi Kevin,
>
> the "problem" is that the plumage of Long-tailed Jaeger does not normally
> look like this...
> The bird has solid blackish undertail coverts that are sharply demarcated
> from the white ventral area.
> When the undertail coverts are extensively dark in Long-tailed, there is
> generally also a dark wash on vent and even the belly;
> a clear-cut black/white division is therefore lacking.
> The breast band is also quite dark and extensive for an individual with
> such a clean white belly.
> The dark 'cap' of this bird looks extensive and it seems to me that it
> clearly reaches below the eye.
> The bill looks rather long to me.
> The white under primary patch is obvious and extensive - better for
> Parasitic. In any case, a restricted, small patch is often seen in immature
> Parasitic too.
>
> Here are a few similarly distant photos of an immature Parasitic Jaeger
> that lingered in Belgium for a few days in late July 2016;
> I think it looks quite similar to John's bird in these shots, except that
> it has a clearly small under primary patch (thus showing the relativity of
> this character).
>
> https://waarnemingen.be/foto/v...
> https://waarnemingen.be/foto/v...
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:41:04 PM GMT+2, Kevin McLaughlin <
> kevinmclaughlin05 AT GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> Hi John. You have provided some excellent points to support a LTJ ID. The
> pale head may be an artifact of lighting on the bird as the head seems
> darker in some photos. I noticed in one photo that there was a small bit of
> white on the outer two or so primaries on the upper side, suggesting LTJ.
> Also the impression, perhaps tentative, that the white under primary patch
> seems not as broad and rounded as I would want to see on a Parasitic, thus
> more appropriate for LTJ. I mainly got the impression of a shortish,
> relatively thick bill. Your notes on age resonate with me as well and I see
> primary molt going on with a "step up" from the secondaries to the inner
> most primaries, also leading away from any consideration of a juvenile. So
> I am concluding that this was a LTJ, probably in molt from first summer to
> second winter...
>
> Kevin McLaughlin
> Hamilton, Ontario.
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Peter Adriaens <
> 00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> > the photos are not very detailed but it looks like a Parasitic Jaeger to
> > me.
> > Best,Peter
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:02:14 AM GMT+2, John Gluth <
> > jgluth@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
> >
> > I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I
> > observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island
> > hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my
> > usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic
> > trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from
> > the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial
> binocular
> > view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I
> got
> > was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next
> > thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any
> > expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at
> the
> > bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a
> > more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It
> > passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still
> quite
> > high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below).
> > Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed
> > jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive
> > ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and
> > the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty'
> > body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head
> > that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2
> > white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two
> images
> > (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe
> > this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of
> barring
> > on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this
> > hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.
> >
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> >
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Wed Oct 25 2017 15:02 pm
From: 00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi Kevin, 
the "problem" is that the plumage of Long-tailed Jaeger does not normally look like this... The bird has solid blackish undertail coverts that are sharply demarcated from the white ventral area. When the undertail coverts are extensively dark in Long-tailed, there is generally also a dark wash on vent and even the belly; a clear-cut black/white division is therefore lacking. The breast band is also quite dark and extensive for an individual with such a clean white belly. The dark 'cap' of this bird looks extensive and it seems to me that it clearly reaches below the eye. The bill looks rather long to me. The white under primary patch is obvious and extensive - better for Parasitic. In any case, a restricted, small patch is often seen in immature Parasitic too.
Here are a few similarly distant photos of an immature Parasitic Jaeger that lingered in Belgium for a few days in late July 2016; I think it looks quite similar to John's bird in these shots, except that it has a clearly small under primary patch (thus showing the relativity of this character).
https://waarnemingen.be/foto/v...
Best regards,Peter



On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:41:04 PM GMT+2, Kevin McLaughlin wrote:

Hi John. You have provided some excellent points to support a LTJ ID. The
pale head may be an artifact of lighting on the bird as the head seems
darker in some photos. I noticed in one photo that there was a small bit of
white on the outer two or so primaries on the upper side, suggesting LTJ.
Also the impression, perhaps tentative, that the white under primary patch
seems not as broad and rounded as I would want to see on a Parasitic, thus
more appropriate for LTJ. I mainly got the impression of a shortish,
relatively thick bill. Your notes on age resonate with me as well and I see
primary molt going on with a "step up" from the secondaries to the inner
most primaries, also leading away from any consideration of a juvenile. So
I am concluding that this was a LTJ, probably in molt from first summer to
second winter...

Kevin McLaughlin
Hamilton, Ontario.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Peter Adriaens <
00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Hi John,
> the photos are not very detailed but it looks like a Parasitic Jaeger to
> me.
> Best,Peter
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:02:14 AM GMT+2, John Gluth <
> jgluth@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
>
> I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I
> observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island
> hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my
> usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic
> trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from
> the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial binocular
> view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I got
> was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next
> thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any
> expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at the
> bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a
> more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It
> passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still quite
> high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below).
> Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed
> jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive
> ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and
> the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty'
> body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head
> that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2
> white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two images
> (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe
> this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of barring
> on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this
> hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Wed Oct 25 2017 11:40 am
From: kevinmclaughlin05 AT gmail.com
 
Hi John. You have provided some excellent points to support a LTJ ID. The
pale head may be an artifact of lighting on the bird as the head seems
darker in some photos. I noticed in one photo that there was a small bit of
white on the outer two or so primaries on the upper side, suggesting LTJ.
Also the impression, perhaps tentative, that the white under primary patch
seems not as broad and rounded as I would want to see on a Parasitic, thus
more appropriate for LTJ. I mainly got the impression of a shortish,
relatively thick bill. Your notes on age resonate with me as well and I see
primary molt going on with a "step up" from the secondaries to the inner
most primaries, also leading away from any consideration of a juvenile. So
I am concluding that this was a LTJ, probably in molt from first summer to
second winter...

Kevin McLaughlin
Hamilton, Ontario.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Peter Adriaens <
00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request@listserv.ksu.edu> wrote:

> Hi John,
> the photos are not very detailed but it looks like a Parasitic Jaeger to
> me.
> Best,Peter
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:02:14 AM GMT+2, John Gluth <
> jgluth@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
>
> I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I
> observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island
> hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my
> usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic
> trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from
> the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial binocular
> view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I got
> was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next
> thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any
> expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at the
> bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a
> more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It
> passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still quite
> high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below).
> Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed
> jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive
> ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and
> the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty'
> body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head
> that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2
> white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two images
> (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe
> this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of barring
> on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this
> hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Wed Oct 25 2017 10:36 am
From: 00000136671ecde4-dmarc-request AT listserv.ksu.edu
 
Hi John, 
the photos are not very detailed but it looks like a Parasitic Jaeger to me.
Best,Peter


On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 6:02:14 AM GMT+2, John Gluth wrote:

I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial binocular view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I got was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at the bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still quite high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below). Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty' body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2 white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two images (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of barring on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...
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Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Tue Oct 24 2017 23:04 pm
From: jgluth AT optonline.net
 
Sorry, forgot to provide a signature

John Gluth
Islip, NY
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Jaeger ID request
Date: Tue Oct 24 2017 23:02 pm
From: jgluth AT optonline.net
 
I would really appreciate any help provided in identifying a jaeger I observed on 22 October 2017, while acting as counter at the Fire island hawk watch (Suffolk County, NY). This jaeger was out of context with my usual (and limited) experience with the family - sea watches and pelagic trips. From atop the watch platform I spotted this bird approaching from the ENE, >1/2 mile out, high over the Great South Bay. My initial binocular view of the bird was in a glide and head on. The immediate impression I got was 'falcon', but then the bird began prolonged powered flight. My next thought was 'larger tern sp, but the bird appeared too dark for any expected tern species. Then I switched to my scope for a better look at the bird it soon became obvious it was a jaeger. The bird altered course to a more due south heading, crossed the barrier beach and went out to sea. It passed to the east of my position, at least a 1/4 mile away and still quite high, but I was able to obtain a sizable number of photos (link below). Based on this field encounter I entered the bird as parasitic/long-tailed jaeger in an eBird checklist, but Im hoping to provide a more definitive ID. Perceived characters pro-LTJA are the initial GISS detailed above and the following, seen during review of photos: narrow based wings; 'chesty' body which tapers to narrow tail with fairly long central rectrices; head that appears quite pale in some photos (_E0A8480 and _E0A8481); only 1-2 white primary shafts visible on dorsal surface of right wing in two images (_E0A8475 and _E0A8486). Bill size is variable between photos. I believe this is a 2nd calendar year individual due to the apparent lack of barring on the underwings and undertail (although poor photo quality makes this hard to assess with much confidence). Thanks again for your help.

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Subject: October 23, 1977
Date: Mon Oct 23 2017 8:40 am
From: ablists AT appliedbioacoustics.com
 
ID Frontiers is mostly about esoteric field marks, but, speaking strictly for me, sometime we have to remember to be ready for the unexpected. Today is the fortieth anniversary of an experience that taught me that lesson. It was also a big day for birding in the U.S. You can read my account of it at my new blog, 
https://simplewondersite.wordp...
regards to all,
Arch

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Probable Prairie Warbler hybrid
Date: Sun Oct 22 2017 16:04 pm
From: hrm AT math.mit.edu
 
An unusual warbler was present at Nahanton Park, Newton, MA, between
October 4 (possibly 3) and October 7, 2017. Photos can be seen at

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

Clearly Prairie in overall pattern, but white and gray replacing yellow and
olive in throat and head. The tail appears short relative to the undertail
covert, as well. Candidate for the other parent: Tennessee Warbler.

Haynes Miller
Newton, MA

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)?
Date: Sun Oct 22 2017 12:32 pm
From: semirelicta AT gmail.com
 
My impression is Lesser Canada. The bill looks longer and thinner than the
Richardson's Cacklers I see here in Nebraska. I think of Cacklers as having
a stubby, short, thick "redpoll bill".

Noah

On Sunday, October 22, 2017, Marshall Weber wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My name is Marshall Weber and I am a birder from Georgia. I was out with a
> friend yesterday afternoon when we found an interesting Branta Goose on a
> small lake (Lake Olympia) in Haralson County, Georgia on the border with
> Alabama. This bird was noticeably much smaller than the typical Canada
> Geese we get in Georgia, so we took pictures and are now struggling to
> identify this lone bird as there were no other birds nearby with which to
> compare it. I believe the bird is either a Hutchinson's Cackling Goose
> (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii) or a Lesser Canada Goose (Branta canadensis
> parvipes). I have no experience with either of these subspecies as neither
> is supposed to be in Georgia, so I was looking for any expert help with
> identifying the bird. I also understand that a final identification may be
> impossible given the lack of other geese/waterfowl with which to compare
> the bird. The eBird checklist with photos can be found at the link below:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> We appreciate any suggestions!
>
> Good Birding,
> Marshall Weber
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: Lesser Canada Goose or Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (in Georgia)?
Date: Sun Oct 22 2017 12:19 pm
From: mjweber478 AT gmail.com
 
Hi All,

My name is Marshall Weber and I am a birder from Georgia. I was out with a friend yesterday afternoon when we found an interesting Branta Goose on a small lake (Lake Olympia) in Haralson County, Georgia on the border with Alabama. This bird was noticeably much smaller than the typical Canada Geese we get in Georgia, so we took pictures and are now struggling to identify this lone bird as there were no other birds nearby with which to compare it. I believe the bird is either a Hutchinson's Cackling Goose (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii) or a Lesser Canada Goose (Branta canadensis parvipes). I have no experience with either of these subspecies as neither is supposed to be in Georgia, so I was looking for any expert help with identifying the bird. I also understand that a final identification may be impossible given the lack of other geese/waterfowl with which to compare the bird. The eBird checklist with photos can be found at the link below:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

We appreciate any suggestions!

Good Birding,
Marshall Weber

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
Date: Thu Oct 19 2017 9:04 am
From: baro AT pdx.edu
 
And then there are hermit and Townsend's warblers..

On Thursday, October 19, 2017, Robert O'Brien wrote:
>
> So my question is, why doesn't the same rationale apply to audubon's and
Myrtle warblers. These "hybridize like crazy" in some areas of British
Columbia but there is little gene flow out of this very limited area of
their huge territories. At least this is my interpretation of the situation.
> Bob O'Brien Portland Oregon
>
> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, Jerry Tangren
wrote:
>> Walter, I dont know about Table Mtn, but farther north along the east
slopes and across to the west side of the Cascades, intergrades are
present. This is one of those splits decided on the basis of the rate of
gene flow; its not a simple issue where an individual belongs to one
species or the other.
>>
>> Jerry Tangren
>> East Wenatchee, WA
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> ________________________________
>> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification <
BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU> on behalf of Walter Szeliga <
walter.szeliga@GMAIL.COM>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:36:03 AM
>> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>> Subject: [BIRDWG01] ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>> The dividing line between Dusky and Sooty Grouse is mapped as
crossing Table Mountain in northeastern Kittitas County (Washington State).
Occasionally folks get photographs of individuals from this region and mark
them as Dusky/Sooty. Now that this split is a few years old, have methods
of separating these species developed? I know that if the tail is spread,
or you have a bird-in-hand, one could count the retrices, or, if you saw a
male displaying and could discern the color of the air sac, this might be a
more straightforward ID. However, beyond those cases (which never seem to
happen), how could one split these species in the field? In particular,
look at the photos in this eBird checklist:
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch... <
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>>
>> Is there anyway to ID this female to species?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Walter Szeliga
>> Ellensburg, WA
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>
>> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
Date: Thu Oct 19 2017 8:44 am
From: baro AT pdx.edu
 
So my question is, why doesn't the same rationale apply to audubon's and
Myrtle warblers. These "hybridize like crazy" in some areas of British
Columbia but there is little gene flow out of this very limited area of
their huge territories. At least this is my interpretation of the
situation.
Bob O'Brien Portland Oregon

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, Jerry Tangren wrote:
> Walter, I dont know about Table Mtn, but farther north along the east
slopes and across to the west side of the Cascades, intergrades are
present. This is one of those splits decided on the basis of the rate of
gene flow; its not a simple issue where an individual belongs to one
species or the other.
>
> Jerry Tangren
> East Wenatchee, WA
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> ________________________________
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification <
BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU> on behalf of Walter Szeliga <
walter.szeliga@GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:36:03 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
>
> Hi Everyone,
> The dividing line between Dusky and Sooty Grouse is mapped as
crossing Table Mountain in northeastern Kittitas County (Washington State).
Occasionally folks get photographs of individuals from this region and mark
them as Dusky/Sooty. Now that this split is a few years old, have methods
of separating these species developed? I know that if the tail is spread,
or you have a bird-in-hand, one could count the retrices, or, if you saw a
male displaying and could discern the color of the air sac, this might be a
more straightforward ID. However, beyond those cases (which never seem to
happen), how could one split these species in the field? In particular,
look at the photos in this eBird checklist:
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch... <
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...
>
> Is there anyway to ID this female to species?
>
> Cheers,
> Walter Szeliga
> Ellensburg, WA
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...
>

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
Date: Tue Oct 17 2017 19:34 pm
From: kloshewoods AT outlook.com
 
Walter, I dont know about Table Mtn, but farther north along the east slopes and across to the west side of the Cascades, intergrades are present. This is one of those splits decided on the basis of the rate of gene flow; its not a simple issue where an individual belongs to one species or the other.

Jerry Tangren
East Wenatchee, WA

Get Outlook for iOS
________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification on behalf of Walter Szeliga
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:36:03 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse

Hi Everyone,
The dividing line between Dusky and Sooty Grouse is mapped as crossing Table Mountain in northeastern Kittitas County (Washington State). Occasionally folks get photographs of individuals from this region and mark them as Dusky/Sooty. Now that this split is a few years old, have methods of separating these species developed? I know that if the tail is spread, or you have a bird-in-hand, one could count the retrices, or, if you saw a male displaying and could discern the color of the air sac, this might be a more straightforward ID. However, beyond those cases (which never seem to happen), how could one split these species in the field? In particular, look at the photos in this eBird checklist:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

Is there anyway to ID this female to species?

Cheers,
Walter Szeliga
Ellensburg, WA
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...

Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...



Subject: ID'ing female Dusky vs Sooty Grouse
Date: Tue Oct 17 2017 12:36 pm
From: walter.szeliga AT gmail.com
 
Hi Everyone,
The dividing line between Dusky and Sooty Grouse is mapped as crossing Table Mountain in northeastern Kittitas County (Washington State). Occasionally folks get photographs of individuals from this region and mark them as Dusky/Sooty. Now that this split is a few years old, have methods of separating these species developed? I know that if the tail is spread, or you have a bird-in-hand, one could count the retrices, or, if you saw a male displaying and could discern the color of the air sac, this might be a more straightforward ID. However, beyond those cases (which never seem to happen), how could one split these species in the field? In particular, look at the photos in this eBird checklist:

http://ebird.org/ebird/view/ch...

Is there anyway to ID this female to species?

Cheers,
Walter Szeliga
Ellensburg, WA
Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdw...


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